The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

[TC (Houston)]



Yes and no.  Sure average cars, even average nice modern BMWs, MBs, Jags, Bentleys etc depreciate.   However, if you you buy the right cars and you are actually buying to collect, lots of vintage cars have been increasing at a tremendous rate.  Granted for some you have to have serious money (more than what many of us spend in a year on watches), but several cars particularly air cooled Porsche 911s have seen huge growth in the last 3-4 years.  About 4-5 years ago Porsche 930 turbos  and early 70s 911T's were regularly selling for 40-50K...now they are six figure cars.  Even a buddy of mine bought an air cooled 993C4S for about $38,000 about 4 years ago...its now worth about $80,000.  For those that had more money and were buying Dino 246s about 4-5 years ago for $90K-150K those are now $350-425K all day long.  I have another friend that owned a car for 11 years and was in the hole the day after he bought it, but value in the last year is such that he could sell it for a profit, and he has had the fun of driving it and attending car show and special events. And its happening with other vintage cars (Jags, MBs, BMWs, Panteras, Masers, etc) in a variety of price ranges.

I may be the person here who understands this the best (maybe the second best). Great points!

 

[CHRK33]



Hi CHRK, even if something isn't my first choice...I'm always happy for people when they have acquired a piece that they enjoy and that has special meaning to them.  In addition, it should be noted, the Overseas models are up against tough competition from AP and PP.  I also really like the darker subdials on your version of the Overseas.  In addition, if comparing  chronographs I do prefer the Overseas chronograph to the Nautilus Chronograph.  I prefer the Overseas proportions, dial layout and design.  I find the Nautilus chronograph too top heavy, bulbous and not what I think of when I think of a Nautilus.  So again congrats and enjoy your special edition Overseas 

Just busting your chops, Dino. I always appreciate your insights and deep knowledge. It has been super helpful and thought-provoking as I build my small collection.

I would have never picked up the 15202 if you hadn't nudged me in that direction, so I will always be grateful for that. Kudos for that.

 

[TheFoo]

By the way, I have it on word from a few different Panerai boutiques that this is the last year of the Panerai 372. As the most exacting iteration of the original Luminor 6152/1 from the 50's, it is the Panerai analog of the AP Royal Oak 15202. Currently sells for a touch over $10k new. Out of 3,000 to be made since 2013, they are past 2,900. Mine is in that range. If you want one, I'd pick one up now. Prices on the used pieces will only go up over the next few years, though they took a hit after the watch was introduced in 2012 and it turned out Panerai was going to make it for more than one year.

If you are into watches and want one representative, modern Panerai to add to your collection, this is the time and this is the one! @Dino944, I'm looking at you.

 

[suaviter]

Happy Friday.


Prepping for a meeting with my accountant .... hope he has some good news

 

[Dino944]

Just busting your chops, Dino. I always appreciate your insights and deep knowledge. It has been super helpful and thought-provoking as I build my small collection.

I would have never picked up the 15202 if you hadn't nudged me in that direction, so I will always be grateful for that. Kudos for that.

No worries about busting my chops I can take it. Its no secret I have strong opinions about watches, but as stated earlier I'm always happy for our SF crew when people pick up pieces that put smiles on their faces.

Thanks...I'm always happy to be a enabler!

If you are into watches and want one representative, modern Panerai to add to your collection, this is the time and this is the one! @Dino944 , I'm looking at you.

Hi Foo, its a great watch and and the design does sing to me. Perhaps it is something I will consider. It has been years since I tried on any Panerai. Mrs. Dino liked how it looked on me, but the big thing was I just didn't find it all that comfortable on my wrist. I've been eating well

and my wrist has bulked up a bit since then, so maybe I'll give it another try as I am currently undecided on what would be the next watch to add to my collection.

 

[Deejmb]



After feeling ashamed of my shoes and other clothes from so many threads here, I finally found one I can hang in! This is what's on my wrist today.



I actually post video reviews on my youtube channel that you guys might like. Here's the newest one:

this brand has always intrigues me.

 

[academe]



Thanks, man. I'm loving both. I can't wait until my Portuguese comes back from service so I can line up my whole collection.

There is a lot of stigma against Panerai, as the progenitor of the big watch trend. However, though big, Panerais are not oversized. By function, they have always been that way and most Panerais utilize larger movements that fit their cases. In other words, Panerai is not guilty of the sins its inspired in others. As a piece of design, I am frustrated by those who can't appreciate it! The simplicity and directness are really standout, made even better by very thoughtful detailing.

Another shot from today, showing off the sexiness of the Plexiglass:

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

I've never disliked the large size of the Panerais, as they are true to the brand's original DNA, as you rightly point out...It's more that the designs have appealed but never enough for me to consider buying one, if that makes sense? On the other hand, even though I'm a big AP fanboy (with 3 of them in my family, AP RO Dualtime, my wife's and father's Jules Audemars watches), the large Offshores put me off... I also find many of the IWCs just a bit too large for my tastes, because - other than their tool watches like the Pilot, Aquatimer and Ingenieur lines - there is nothing that necessitates >42mm size for more dressy watches like the Poruguese or Portofino collection... And don't even get me started on Hublot... What I like about Panerai is their design integrity and clear sense of identity. They are not trying to be anything other than what they are, and have a clear design language of their own. In some respects, I even like the plain but efficient looking finishing on their in-house calibres; it sits well with the overall gestalt of Panerai (whereas the sometimes the more decorated Unitas movements somehow seem at odds with the almost minimalist dials of the watches themselves)...And that plexiglass is pretty sexy.

 

[academe]

deleted

 

[academe]



Lately I've taken to wearing a very plain vintage IWC in steel. I love the simplicity. It's not an attention grabber ... and that is quite a plus.

I haven't been here since this date last year -- it's an annual visit these days -- so not sure if adding a photo will work or not.

Nice to see you hear RSS! It's the only thread I still post on here - glad you've found your way back, even if it's only an annual visit. Would love to see your other watches paired perhaps with your Richard Anderson tweeds? I understand you have a few JLCs and a Vacheron or two in your collection??? :tounge:

 

[in stitches]

That really is a great looking watch, Foo.

 

[TobiasGendrick]



So you could call us watch geeks stupid of overpaying hugely! 

I don't consider it stupid, necessarily, but I don't think that a prestige watch brand is ever an investment. It will never produce reliable income. At best, there is now and then a particular model that ends up being desirable to collectors and increasing in value.

To be clear, though, this is speculation, nt investment. Warren Buffet would be quick to point this out.

I have only bought a couple of high end watches new. The rest I've bought used or inherited. The used market often shaves 50% or more out of a watch in great condition. A few scuffs on the case and bracelet would be inevitable anyway. And a good movement kept well serviced will last for generations.

I doubt I will ever buy Patek, Nardin, etc, and other "super prestige" brands. I imagine the price of manufacturing is closer to 10% of those list prices. They remind me of the infamous Hermes alligator peacoat. It costs 250,000. A top quality alligator skin goes for around 2k. It might use 2-4 skins. A great tailor works for $60-80 an hour. So even if the materials were 8,000 and manufacturing cost were 3,200...that would be 4.48% of the MSRP.

To me, that much markup will always be insane. That's the domain of the ultra wealthy who have forgotten what savvy spending is, and looks like. I have much more respect for someone who makes a great secondhand Rolex purchase. Just my opinion.

 

[jbarwick]

I've been eating well

and my wrist has bulked up a bit since then

Your IG is full of amazing cars, watches, and food. You have great taste in my favorite food course...the desserts!!!

 

[RFX45]



Another shot from today, showing off the sexiness of the Plexiglass:

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

Need a lumeshot of how much that thing glows.

 

[in stitches]



I don't consider it stupid, necessarily, but I don't think that a prestige watch brand is ever an investment.

This is usually true.

The used market often shaves 50% or more out of a watch in great condition. A few scuffs on the case and bracelet would be inevitable anyway. And a good movement kept well serviced will last for generations.

As is this, but there is certainly an appeal to buying new.

I doubt I will ever buy Patek, Nardin, etc, and other "super prestige" brands.

Interesting juxtaposition.

I imagine the price of manufacturing is closer to 10% of those list prices. They remind me of the infamous Hermes alligator peacoat. It costs 250,000. A top quality alligator skin goes for around 2k. It might use 2-4 skins. A great tailor works for $60-80 an hour. So even if the materials were 8,000 and manufacturing cost were 3,200...that would be 4.48% of the MSRP.

To me, that much markup will always be insane.

This is flat wrong. You have to remember that many high end watches, specifically ones with high complications, or various innovations, and delicate case and movement making, take years and years and millions and millions of dollars in R&D. That cost has to be recouped. As does packaging, and advertising, which are part of their costs, and things we all benefit from. Not to mention that skilled master watchmakers command nice salaries and can spend up to a year on just a few pieces, and some pieces might take a full year.

Lastly, manufactures do not get MSRP for their watches. They sell to ADs at 40-50% below retail. That cuts the margin right in half off the bat. Factor in the above paragraph, and they are far from making the profits you wrongly assume.

Then you have the ADs, who sink huge amounts of money up front into inventory. As such, you have time value of money, while they sit on many pieces for quite some time, and, they are not public service operations, they are business out to make money. On top of that, they rarely get full mark up anyways with the huge amount of gray market competition and pre-owned sales, that are out there.

There is this tendency to blame businesses, especially luxury business, of gouging, or to assume they are out there just making a killing, raking money into their coffers, laughing at the silly customers who walk through their doors. That is generally a fallacy. Its a complex business, like so many others, that creates huge cash flow strains, and a constant requirement to be on top of your game as the competition is stiff and vast, and technology is ever changing, and the customer base is fickle.

Im not saying that there are not many extremely wealthy brand execs and jewelry store owners out there, but there is no reason to harbor resentment against them any different than any other wealthy and successful business owner. Its not like they are a mafia or gang, they are all legitimate business that take huge amounts of savvy and business knowledge to be as successful as they are.

Over simplfying it like you did is a disservice to everyone. Yourself included. Im not saying everyone needs to buy new, or from an AD, but at least address that avenue with the proper mindset.

That's the domain of the ultra wealthy who have forgotten what savvy spending is, and looks like. I have much more respect for someone who makes a great secondhand Rolex purchase. Just my opinion.

I dont even know where to start with this asinine comment. Its a blanket statement, and its thoughtless, empty, condescending, and wrong. Respect whomever you want, but dont throw people under the bus just because they approach things differently than you do.

 

[TheFoo]



I've never disliked the large size of the Panerais, as they are true to the brand's original DNA, as you rightly point out...It's more that the designs have appealed but never enough for me to consider buying one, if that makes sense? On the other hand, even though I'm a big AP fanboy (with 3 of them in my family, AP RO Dualtime, my wife's and father's Jules Audemars watches), the large Offshores put me off... I also find many of the IWCs just a bit too large for my tastes, because - other than their tool watches like the Pilot, Aquatimer and Ingenieur lines - there is nothing that necessitates >42mm size for more dressy watches like the Poruguese or Portofino collection... And don't even get me started on Hublot... What I like about Panerai is their design integrity and clear sense of identity. They are not trying to be anything other than what they are, and have a clear design language of their own. In some respects, I even like the plain but efficient looking finishing on their in-house calibres; it sits well with the overall gestalt of Panerai (whereas the sometimes the more decorated Unitas movements somehow seem at odds with the almost minimalist dials of the watches themselves)...And that plexiglass is pretty sexy.

I agree with you about IWC, except to say that even the so-called tool watches are now a travesty and I think the Portuguese gets an excuse because it was originally designed to be a larger pocketwatch-based dress watch in the 30's. Actually, to my mind, the Portuguese series is the only IWC model line that is currently worth considering, and even then, the individual models are hit or miss.

Hublot makes me want to vomit. RO Offshore is not much better.