The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

[no frills]

Fascinating. Rolex employees were just told this morning in Geneva that Dufour, ex-CEO of Zenith, is now the guy at the top. Wonder what this means for Rolex's future offerings.

 

[tifosi]



Fascinating.  Rolex employees were just told this morning in Geneva that Dufour, ex-CEO of Zenith, is now the guy at the top.  Wonder what this means for Rolex's future offerings.

...probably nothing.

 

[no frills]

...probably nothing.

That was the punchline!

 

[tifosi]



That was the punchline! 

I kinda had a feeling...haha

 

[Belligero]



Fascinating.  Rolex employees were just told this morning in Geneva that Dufour, ex-CEO of Zenith, is now the guy at the top.  Wonder what this means for Rolex's future offerings.

http://www.letemps.ch/Page/Uuid/64550574-c3c4-11e3-b435-a900aecea3d2/Rolex_change_de_patron

 

[academe]



The hand-wound original is the one to have. I'm sure the co-axial version has better specs, but I think a case that thick would get tiresome, plus the date window detracts from the purity of the chronograph design.
I temporarily swapped one of my GMTs for an acrylic Speedmaster with a friend recently. The case is just genius. It's a fantastic watch, and I don't think it's possible to improve on the original. Omega seems to realize this, seeing as they keep it in production (still the coolest watch they make, IMHO). I would love to have a cal. 321 version sometime.

I understand this point of view and respect it. However, from my point of view, I've not been interested in acquiring a historical Speedy because it doesn't appeal to me aesthetically. The new '57 speaks to me more (although of course I fully appreciate what the original watch represents and it's unique place in history).

I just wonder how much value Speedy collectors place on the new innovations and technological advancements of the new '57 (e.g. co-axial escapement, column wheel, etc.) or if that's less relevant to those who like the Speedy because of its historical importance? Fratello Watches wrote a thoughtful on the wrist review here that raises some interesting points; for example, that perhaps it's fairer to compare the new '57 with the Daytona or the IWC Spitfire (with in-house movement) because of the price point and technical features of the watch. The whole issue of price crops up again and again when comparing the original Speedy with the '57, but it seems to some extent what underlies this debate is the relative value placed on historical authenticity versus technological innovation. I wonder if the two watches are really addressing different types of watch collectors; i.e. the original for those looking for a historical watch; the newer '57 for those who perhaps want the newer technological bells and whistles, and a "refresh" of the original design. Thoughts?

I think it's cool, and as someone who always likes blue dials, I think I like the black 57 actually.

The black dialled version does have a more minimalist colour scheme that is appealing... The one I saw was with a black dial, and that is certainly a very handsome watch.

 

[Dino944]

Thanks Dino. I often think it's a shame that I now work in a more casual work place because many of my watches pair better with tailored clothing.

When did they discontinue my RO? It's still up on the website. At least AP don't cycle through models as quickly as Patek! I'm always surprised at how readily the latter change their catalogue range, swapping out even relatively popular models.

Hi Academe,

I was at an AP Trunk show this past weekend, and I met AP's retail director, Jasmine Bapic. She is very lovely. They had several novelty pieces from SIHH, in addition to their current models. She informed me that now they were only producing the Jumbo, or Jumbo variations in 39 mm cases, and that the RO Dual Time and RO Day-Date were out of production. However, Jasmine said they still have some available in their stock, but once the stock is gone it is gone. They had a blue dial RO Dual Time in the boutique (price had gone up from what I recalled it was now $22K USD), and it was quite handsome. On some level she seemed to suggest AP wanted to move away from watches where they do not produce the movement themselves, as she said something to the effect that those watches used movements from outside AP (although that never bothered me). As you know the Dual Time and Day-Date both use JLC based movements. The ultra thin Cal 2120/2121 was developed by JLC, but AP owns the rights to it, and AP produces it itself in house. It made me wonder if they will change the 41mm ROC movement as that is still based on the F.Piguet 1185. I did try on the blue dial Dual Time and thought it was really handsome. Both its case and bracelet are thicker than that of the Jumbo, so it has a different feel, even though both are 39mm. I think if I traveled more I might give the Dual Time more serious consideration while there are new ones still available.

PS... I just checked the website this morning and the RO Day-Date is also still listed as part their collection.

 

[academe]



Hi Academe,

I was at an AP Trunk show this past weekend, and I met AP's retail director,  Jasmine Bapic.  She is very lovely.   They had several novelty pieces from SIHH, in addition to their current models.  She informed me that now they were only producing the Jumbo, or Jumbo variations in 39 mm cases, and that the RO Dual Time and RO Day-Date were out of production.  However, Jasmine said they still have some available in their stock, but once the stock is gone it is gone.  They had a blue dial RO Dual Time in the boutique (price had gone up from what I recalled it was now $22K USD), and it was quite handsome.  On some level she seemed to suggest AP wanted to move away from watches where they do not produce the movement themselves, as she said something to the effect that those watches used movements from outside AP (although that never bothered me).  As you know the Dual Time and Day-Date both use JLC based movements.  The ultra thin Cal 2120/2121 was developed by JLC, but AP owns the rights to it, and AP produces it itself in house.  It made me wonder if they will change the 41mm ROC movement as that is still based on the F.Piguet 1185.  I did try on the blue dial Dual Time and thought it was really handsome.  Both its case and bracelet are thicker than that of the Jumbo, so it has a different feel, even though both are 39mm.  I think if I traveled more I might give the Dual Time more serious consideration while there are new ones still available.  

Yes; I've seen press releases and Ms Bapic certainly is...charismatic; just what you need for a very public retail director.

Interesting trend that they are moving towards only using in-house movements exclusively. I suppose VC and others have done the same, although quite honestly given that they used to own a large share in JLC and have such high levels of finishing on all their movements, this has never bothered me either. The blue-dialed Dualtime is very handsome. I was torn between the two. The austerity of the white-tailed version that I own eventually won the day, but I do catch myself second guessing myself the times that I've seen the blue-dialed Dualtime again.

I wonder if a shift to an in-house chrono replacement for the AP ROC will result in price hikes? Seems the norm when watchmakers are trying to recoup the R&D costs, though certainly AP have priced themselves very competitively vs Patek, VC and AL&S over the years...

 

[MilanoStyle]

I love a simple diver watch, my recent purchase:

 

[Dino944]

Interesting trend that they are moving towards only using in-house movements exclusively. I suppose VC and others have done the same, although quite honestly given that they used to own a large share in JLC and have such high levels of finishing on all their movements, this has never bothered me either. The blue-dialed Dualtime is very handsome. I was torn between the two. The austerity of the white-tailed version that I own eventually won the day, but I do catch myself second guessing myself the times that I've seen the blue-dialed Dualtime again.

I wonder if a shift to an in-house chrono replacement for the AP ROC will result in price hikes? Seems the norm when watchmakers are trying to recoup the R&D costs, though certainly AP have priced themselves very competitively vs Patek, VC and AL&S over the years...

She didn't explicitly say that they were moving toward using in-house movements, so I don't want to put words in her mouth. However, what she said above, and the way she said it seemed to suggest they are moving away from outsourced movements. The Day & Date is actually a design that dates back to the 1980s, and the Dual Time was originally in some AP dress watches in the late 1980s and it was eventually released in a 36mm RO case, I believe in the early 1990s. IIRC AP still owned its 40% stake in JLC when these variations were released many years ago. I think with part ownership there was less issue in the minds of some about it not being a movement made by AP. However, consumers tend to be less forgiving these days about watches not using in house movements, even though for instance its often not something that makes one watch better than another. The movement and finish on the Dual Time RO and Day & Date RO are far finer than what one will find inside a Rolex or Omega with in house movement. So IMHO, the fact that Rolex or certain Omega watches use in house movements, doesn't make them better watches than a Dual Time RO, even though a Dual Time's base movement is from JLC.

I've never been bothered by a company using an outsourced movement as long as its high quality. Some of my watches used base movements from Zenith, JLC, F.Piguet, and Piaget. As for VC, they are moving toward more in house pieces, but they still use some outsourced movements, their cal 1120 is licensed from AP, their Dual Time uses JLC's movement, and their Overseas Chronograph uses F. Piguet's 1185.

I guess only time will tell what will happen with AP's ROC, but that is currently one of their last pieces using an outsourced movement.

The the RO Dual Time looks great in each of the colors they offer it in, so there is no need to second guess yourself. You made a great choice. If you don't currently have a watch with a blue dial its something I'd recommend, but that is always something you can add to your collection at a later date.

 

[TC (Houston)]



112 is a awesome watch IMO.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the watch, I just haven't been wearing it very often because it's a little too big for suit wear and I've been rocking the hell out of my Big Pilot and 15400 on the evenings and weekends. I've been toying with the idea of putting the rubber strap back on, and that's when I sorta started itching for the diver. That AP bezel is really addictive. It's kind of a moot point, my 112 is dinged up enough that it's probably worth more to me than I would get on sale/trade.

 

[academe]



Don't get me wrong, I really like the watch, I just haven't been wearing it very often because it's a little too big for suit wear and I've been rocking the hell out of my Big Pilot and 15400 on the evenings and weekends. I've been toying with the idea of putting the rubber strap back on, and that's when I sorta started itching for the diver. That AP bezel is really addictive. It's kind of a moot point, my 112 is dinged up enough that it's probably worth more to me than I would get on sale/trade.

The nice thing about the PAMs is that they look good with different pairs of shoes, so may be swapping back to rubber may give your 112 a new lease on life?

I fully understand the RO addiction. When they first released the diver and later variants (forged carbon, etc) I seriously considered acquiring one simply because I love my RO so much that I thought it would be great to have a sportier version for causal wear. Happily for my wallet, I've decided to stay the course and go for a 2 or 3 hand dress watch/ultra thin. But who knows what my futures holds?

 

[no frills]

Yes; I've seen press releases and Ms Bapic certainly is...charismatic; just what you need for a very public retail director.

 

[academe]



Don't get me wrong, I really like the watch, I just haven't been wearing it very often because it's a little too big for suit wear and I've been rocking the hell out of my Big Pilot and 15400 on the evenings and weekends. I've been toying with the idea of putting the rubber strap back on, and that's when I sorta started itching for the diver. That AP bezel is really addictive. It's kind of a moot point, my 112 is dinged up enough that it's probably worth more to me than I would get on sale/trade.

As a bit of an aside, as a PAM collector, any thoughts on the new PAM 560 (Luminor base with new in-house P5000 hand wound movement)? Read a review of the new in-house Luminors here and was curious. I especially liked the titanium PAM 564. I'm secretly hoping that the narrower profile of the new P5000 watches may mean that the 44mm cases won't swamp my 6.75" wrist. Or may be I should wish otherwise...

 

[TC (Houston)]



The nice thing about the PAMs is that they look good with different pairs of shoes, so may be swapping back to rubber may give your 112 a new lease on life?

I fully understand the RO addiction. When they first released the diver and later variants (forged carbon, etc) I seriously considered acquiring one simply because I love my RO so much that I thought it would be great to have a sportier version for causal wear. Happily for my wallet, I've decided to stay the course and go for a 2 or 3 hand dress watch/ultra thin. But who knows what my futures holds?

You talked me into it, I'm going to do it. When its back on the rubber then Mrs. TC will wear it too, which is a good thing.

Since my Sub isn't available to me now (sized for Mrs. TC), I've gotten a slight itch for a diver or 42mm ROO. But I should try not to get distracted and continue to focus on working toward a gold watch for my next piece. I'm really happy that you guys talked me into the 15400 over the 26320. The 15400 does perfect dress duty for my purposes--very exciting for me every time I put it on, but pretty much a sleeper if you aren't a hardcore watch enthusiast.