The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre,

[am55]

This watch is providing me a very odd experience. I really enjoy wearing it, it's well thought out, well made and extremely comfortable at close to my ideal proportions/measurements. I find myself compelled to wear it often, but I am not quite satisfied with it for some reason. It's likely the first watch I would sell if I decided I needed to fund something else, despite the fact that I've worn it more than anything else this month and maybe since I received it.

View attachment 2321995

I tried playing a couple tracks by Chet Baker. And I got all the notes right, and the dynamics, and the rhythm, and it was together with the band, looked fine, people clapped and told me they liked my sound afterwards and so on. But it was missing Chet Baker.

This is how I feel every Ming I see.

 

[am55]

Yep, agree on that, but if the price point made it practically disposable compared to the real version so a person just tosses it and buys a new one if it breaks, or if it could be repaired by an independent repair person for a decent price, who knows how it might affect things. It seems like back in the day with cheap knock-offs, it was a no brainer to avoid, but now with the increased quality you see this weird growing "RepTime" community. A lot of collectors will argue you're not only buying the craftsmanship, but the knowledge and the history yada yada yada, so they will also want to buy the real deal. I think a lot of the recent discussion was spurred on by the recent Walmart Birkin craze, and if something like that could happen with luxury watches.

To be honest my current answer to that is I don't know enough to be able to tell the fake, so buying from the store gives me some assurance that it's real. If the store starts peddling fakes (the next logical step if they're undistinguishable is for staff to start trafficking)...

I don't really care what others think at least re: luxury purchases, but I care how I feel so it's about self-reassurance.

 

[am55]

I think even someone who occasionally buys a nice watch, and who isn't into movements and other details, probably can't tell an average fake from a real watch anyway.

It's to the point where people who own the real thing are on public (but anonymous) forums talking directly with the superfake factory about the latest discrepancies they've found, and reviewing the fixes as they get produced. We're way past a quartz movement in a Rolex case, let alone Frankenwatches.

I recently bought a vintage (but inexpensive) instrument that needed servicing. The first shop told me some parts had been replaced and refused to do the service. The second shop had a proper enthusiast tech who spent a week with it, and then told me he had checked everything and it was all original and he was thrilled to work on it. Whether or not the second is correct is not the point - the point is two shops with a well established reputation (one of which is right next to the national concert hall) could have such a different opinion on something relatively simple. Experts get it wrong all the time and even if you are yourself an expert you are thus not impervious to the same.

Hence provenance being everything.

 

[am55]

It also begs the question, why would anyone choose to do business with a guy like that. Even before the ponzi scheme, he struck me as a d0uche. Why do business with the guy who just started "dealing" watches when there are dozens of well-known, reputable watch dealers who were in business long before peak covid watch values. It's not like he could sell your watch for 10% more than another dealer. What value did he bring to the transaction?

It's a good filter if you're running a scam. You do not want someone like you, Dino, etc. to be a customer as there's a higher chance of problems.

Similar vein to: https://josephsteinberg.com/why-scammers-make-spelling-and-grammar-mistakes/

 

[patrick_b]

It's to the point where people who own the real thing are on public (but anonymous) forums talking directly with the superfake factory about the latest discrepancies they've found, and reviewing the fixes as they get produced. We're way past a quartz movement in a Rolex case, let alone Frankenwatches.

I recently bought a vintage (but inexpensive) instrument that needed servicing. The first shop told me some parts had been replaced and refused to do the service. The second shop had a proper enthusiast tech who spent a week with it, and then told me he had checked everything and it was all original and he was thrilled to work on it. Whether or not the second is correct is not the point - the point is two shops with a well established reputation (one of which is right next to the national concert hall) could have such a different opinion on something relatively simple. Experts get it wrong all the time and even if you are yourself an expert you are thus not impervious to the same.

Hence provenance being everything.

Well said. Interesting corollary. My 2005-2006 era Sea Dweller is at RSC for service. I bought it a couple of years ago from a reputable pre-owned dealer. I was never concerned with authenticity but a lot can happen in 20 years so I planned on getting it serviced.

During the estimate, RSC gives it the thumbs up for a total overhaul. This week, once it was opened up I assume, they notified me that one of the hands was not meant for this watch so they recommended I replace them with a set of period correct hands ($93).

I never noticed it and [perhaps] the dealer didn't notice it. It was a rolex hand but from a different era/model.

Looking at these images and now it's clear that the minute hand doesn't quite match. Slightly whiter than the hour hand and hour markers. Likely from a newer sub or sd and the lume section is wider than the hour hand (almost like a maxi dial vs standard dial).

Grabbed this image of a similar era watch to compare and the minute hand has a thinner lume profile than mine:

Knowing that it's tainted, I told them to donate it to a local underprivileged Tudor owner. I can't be seen wearing such a monstrosity! What would the guys at the Waffle House think?

 

[Dino944]

I think I’ve seen that Porsche before. It was a GT3 or GT4

Sadly, I've seen pix of more than one! First one I saw was some sort of 996, but maybe that in and of itself shows a lack of taste

RE: customized Rolex. I saw some of the openworked ones and they looked extremely bad in-person. IMO if a movement isn't designed to be openworked from the start, it RARELY looks good openworked.

Yes, I've heard some people say that although the "Le Mans" Daytona has a sapphire case back, its not that highly decorated and probably should have kept the solid case back.

Agreed. My Oyster Perpetual has a case back inscription related to the professional milestone for which it was given to me. But, I didn't choose the inscription. If I were to choose it myself, I would have a hard time deciding.

Something like that is a bit different, and you won't get tired of seeing that on your watch in 6 month, 5 years, or more. Even initials I'd be a bit hesitant to get because I'm not a big fan of monogrammed items.

 

[Dino944]

To be honest my current answer to that is I don't know enough to be able to tell the fake,....I don't really care what others think at least re: luxury purchases, but I care how I feel so it's about self-reassurance.

I agree completely. Even if everyone else I knew was buying fakes, I'd still only want to buy the real thing. It's purely for me and my enjoyment.

It's a good filter if you're running a scam. You do not want someone like you, Dino, etc. to be a customer as there's a higher chance of problems.

Similar vein to: https://josephsteinberg.com/why-scammers-make-spelling-and-grammar-mistakes/

Very interesting! I never considered that making some mistakes fits into their scheme. I just thought the scammers were idiots.

 

[Keyser_Söze]

Since we are talking about fake watches and how people perceive them. People are still buying absolutely bad fakes. I caught a guy my best friend started dating with "$2 million in watches collection". Once the watches were described it was 100% clear all of them were fake. He went on a date with a steel Patek Nautilus with a visible dial tourbillon. Well Patek never made a Nautilus with a visible dial tourbillon so that was clearly fake. The next date he had a Rolex with a big Rolex logo on the back of the watch. Rolex watches generally are blank on the back. He also claimed a pave diamond Rolex. Anyone that knows anything about Rolex knows that wasn't likely for this guy.

Luckily my friend knew who to ask about this guy but I fear most people can be tricked by people with bad intentions using something as simple as fake watches.

 

[am55]

Well said. Interesting corollary. My 2005-2006 era Sea Dweller is at RSC for service. I bought it a couple of years ago from a reputable pre-owned dealer. I was never concerned with authenticity but a lot can happen in 20 years so I planned on getting it serviced.

During the estimate, RSC gives it the thumbs up for a total overhaul. This week, once it was opened up I assume, they notified me that one of the hands was not meant for this watch so they recommended I replace them with a set of period correct hands ($93).

I never noticed it and [perhaps] the dealer didn't notice it. It was a rolex hand but from a different era/model.

Looking at these images and now it's clear that the minute hand doesn't quite match. Slightly whiter than the hour hand and hour markers. Likely from a newer sub or sd and the lume section is wider than the hour hand (almost like a maxi dial vs standard dial).

View attachment 2324771

Grabbed this image of a similar era watch to compare and the minute hand has a thinner lume profile than mine:

View attachment 2324793

Knowing that it's tainted, I told them to donate it to a local underprivileged Tudor owner. I can't be seen wearing such a monstrosity! What would the guys at the Waffle House think?

The thing is it's all about cost/reward. You can be a reputable expert, with a good reputation, and just let stuff slip because it doesn't make financial sense to be 100% all of the time, and 80/20 is where the market settles.

Maybe drop a mail to the original shop and let them know about the minute hand? That'll allow them to check that on future inbound. Maybe they just didn't think of it until now.

 

[chocomallo]

The thing is it's all about cost/reward. You can be a reputable expert, with a good reputation, and just let stuff slip because it doesn't make financial sense to be 100% all of the time, and 80/20 is where the market settles.

Maybe drop a mail to the original shop and let them know about the minute hand? That'll allow them to check that on future inbound. Maybe they just didn't think of it until now.

I put it at a high possibility that Rolex itself put on the wrong hand at some point in the past. My old man only ever serviced my GMT with Rolex from the day he bought it. Yet the last time I serviced the watch, the Rolex boutique told me the end links of the bracelet were from a different model. Oddly, I had the same watch serviced by Rolex five or six years before that and wasn’t told that.

I wonder whether some of the frankenwatch stuff is partially attributable to the brands themselves.

That fella at Omega got caught in a fraudulent scheme “verifying” frankenwatch to enrich himself a while back.

 

[mebiuspower]

 

[am55]

I put it at a high possibility that Rolex itself put on the wrong hand at some point in the past. My old man only ever serviced my GMT with Rolex from the day he bought it. Yet the last time I serviced the watch, the Rolex boutique told me the end links of the bracelet were from a different model. Oddly, I had the same watch serviced by Rolex five or six years before that and wasn’t told that.

I wonder whether some of the frankenwatch stuff is partially attributable to the brands themselves.

That fella at Omega got caught in a fraudulent scheme “verifying” frankenwatch to enrich himself a while back.

For sure, but it's the shop's responsibility to check the item before accepting it, no matter the cause for discrepancies. That's what their reputation is built on.

 

[patrick_b]

I remember seeing years ago a photo of a Porsche that someone custom ordered, with a yellow exterior and red and yellow interior. It looked like Ronald McDonald custom ordered the car.

I think I’ve seen that Porsche before. It was a GT3 or GT4

The worst one I saw was one of the 1900-ish highly coveted (understatement of the year) 911 ST’s spec’d with these custom sill guards. At least you can’t see them from the outside.

 

[NakedYoga]

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Love it, although I prefer it on a leather strap. Is the thickness as noticeable as others seem to suggest?