The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre,

[Dino944]

Do any ADs have a "no flipping" term for a set number of years in their contract of sale? It's quite common in the art world. I suppose it's easier to enforce with unique items.

I've never seen or heard of that with watches. Ferrari tried to combat flippers by making some of their supercars leases for the first either year or two. Now they have a sales contract that has a right of first refusal to the dealership. Violate the contract, and you name goes on the naughty list and the network of authorized dealerships will never sell you a car again.

One of my friends bought an AP a few years ago through a boutique in another region, sold it maybe after two years, and then maybe a year or two went by and went to buy another through a local boutique. He was made aware that they knew he sold one of their watches, and that although they will sell him this piece, if at some point he decides to sell it to notify them first. They didn't say what happens if he doesn't, but he took it to mean they probably won't sell him any more watches.

I also heard an interview with the head of AL&S, and he was saying they do check to see what ends up in gray stores or pre-owned shops. He did say, a really great customer ended up in financial difficulty and told them he would have to sell some of his watches to save his business. He told the owner they understood and appreciated his letting them know. He said maybe a year or two went by and he reached out that his business was good again and he wanted to resume the relationship they had and start to rebuild his collection. He said they were happy to reconnect and work with him again.

 

[Texasmade]

I also heard an interview with the head of AL&S, and he was saying they do check to see what ends up in gray stores or pre-owned shops. He did say, a really great customer ended up in financial difficulty and told them he would have to sell some of his watches to save his business. He told the owner they understood and appreciated his letting them know. He said maybe a year or two went by and he reached out that his business was good again and he wanted to resume the relationship they had and start to rebuild his collection. He said they were happy to reconnect and work with him again.

I bet they were more than happy to sell him some 6 figure watches.

 

[Neville Southall]

Still rocking Amazon Goodthreads, though.

 

[Ebitdaddy]

ALS is a joke. Promised me a lot back when I dropped $$$ with them during peak COVID fear times and then changed their mind on promises made b/c the brand went from being fugly to hawt.

They are alreaady dropped a lot in value again every month, and I'm sure they'll be back where they were shortly.

I bet they were more than happy to sell him some 6 figure watches.

 

[Ebitdaddy]

I'm convinced that indies are for RedBar attendees and The Rolex Forum posters who want bragging rights over their peers with pedestrian watches that anybody with money can get.

I do think indies are prevailingly a social media flex.

The allure of “if you know, you know” is pretty silly in real life (otherwise, why would there be an impulse to share these watches with the internet watch community - you know, the people who do know?).

And the tyranny of ubiquitous icons is much overblown. Most people don’t have a clue about even the most iconic/cliche watches.

If someone wanted to flex, they'd buy a Rolex/PP/AP?

For me the appeal of indies is as follow...

1. Really bad experiences with large brands that really do not care and break promises all the time and treat their customers like idiots. AP telling me to BuILd A RelAtionShIp and fly in is horseshit lol. What a joke and completely disrespectful of my time. Keep in mind AP and PP totally burned customers who had AD relationships and then when the AD lost dealer status, the customer was left high and dry. Loads of anecdotes about this on TRF/WPS/etc...

2. I like supporting other entrepreneurs. This is how I make my money, so I can empathize with their work. If you are not an entrepreneur, you will not understand what it is like to lever up & gamble your life savings on some room temp IQ idea.

3. Quality is objectively better for the dollar plus I can customize. This applies across the spectrum of prices. I have ordered everything from affordable indies like Benzinger and Felipe Pikullik to Voutilainen. It's a fun process to customize a watch! To me, something like a Voutilainen is the perfect intersection of engineering, art, and craftsmanship. With Armin Strom, I'm getting a really fun visual complication (resonance), and was able to customize my watch. The cofounder helped me spec my watch and he was totally transparent/helpful - total opposite of point #1. If you were to buy something like a Mirrored Force Resonance from a mainstream brand, it would be ~3x - 5x the cost and you would have to own kneepads to get one.

This isn't the only hobby I have done this with. One of my first businesses involved selling high end bespoke guitars. We also did "runs" of them to make them more affordable for enthusiasts without $$$. It was a lot of fun working with my customers and designing guitars for them.

 

[symphvaria]

If someone wanted to flex, they'd buy a Rolex/PP/AP?

You are thinking of the average Joe Schmoe living in Miami, not the guy who thinks he’s way better than the average Joe Schmoe but actually isn’t (who also lives in Miami and is also addicted to Instagram).

 

[Ebitdaddy]

You are thinking of the average Joe Schmoe living in Miami, not the guy who thinks he’s way better than the average Joe Schmoe but actually isn’t (who also lives in Miami and is also addicted to Instagram).

Miami is too humid for minute repeaters.

 

[Omega Male]

Still like my 1815 Chrono but also don't have the hots for ALS anymore. Mostly I want mug @Neville Southall for his Zenith Daytona, but I hate being shot at.

 

[Texasmade]

Miami is too humid for minute repeaters.

That's why people go to Dubai.

 

[Texasmade]

ALS is a joke. Promised me a lot back when I dropped $$$ with them during peak COVID fear times and then changed their mind on promises made b/c the brand went from being fugly to hawt.

Kind of the reason why I don't really spend money on watches even though they hold their value better than my other hobby of bespoke clothes and shoes. At least with the bespoke stuff, the cutters/shoemakers aren't going to tell me to bundle purchases or treat me like sh1t.

 

[Dino944]

If someone wanted to flex, they'd buy a Rolex/PP/AP?

For me the appeal of indies is as follow...

1. Really bad experiences with large brands that really do not care and break promises all the time and treat their customers like idiots. AP telling me to BuILd A RelAtionShIp and fly in is horseshit lol. What a joke and completely disrespectful of my time. Keep in mind AP and PP totally burned customers who had AD relationships and then when the AD lost dealer status, the customer was left high and dry. Loads of anecdotes about this on TRF/WPS/etc...

2. I like supporting other entrepreneurs. This is how I make my money, so I can empathize with their work. If you are not an entrepreneur, you will not understand what it is like to lever up & gamble your life savings on some room temp IQ idea.

3. Quality is objectively better for the dollar plus I can customize. This applies across the spectrum of prices. I have ordered everything from affordable indies like Benzinger and Felipe Pikullik to Voutilainen. It's a fun process to customize a watch! To me, something like a Voutilainen is the perfect intersection of engineering, art, and craftsmanship. With Armin Strom, I'm getting a really fun visual complication (resonance), and was able to customize my watch. The cofounder helped me spec my watch and he was totally transparent/helpful - total opposite of point #1. If you were to buy something like a Mirrored Force Resonance from a mainstream brand, it would be ~3x - 5x the cost and you would have to own kneepads to get one.

This isn't the only hobby I have done this with. One of my first businesses involved selling high end bespoke guitars. We also did "runs" of them to make them more affordable for enthusiasts without $$$. It was a lot of fun working with my customers and designing guitars for them.

Definitely, an interesting read. I always enjoy seeing the thoughts behind why people choose certain brands or go with independents.

I think anyone who has purchased watches in the last 10+ years and see huge changes in brands, ADs, boutiques, the way customers are treated, the way watches are marketed and sold. Changes in supply on some level due to Covid on other levels due to brands wanting to be perceived as hard to get luxury items. Other changes due to social media.

I think being able to customize or have a watch made the way you want it to be made sounds like fun. I've done it with cars, clothing, and a home, so I definitely understand the draw.

I think Armin Strom, definitely has some great offerings that are interesting, wearable, and seem to be a good value. I know a few guys who own watches from independents, and a few who asked for a bit of customization. TBH, I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder. However, most of the independent watches beyond the movement finish, often leave me underwhelmed in terms of overall design, or they are just plain weird or ugly. I think it was Ferdinand or Ferry Porsche that said something to the effect of making something different is easy. Making something that's better is difficult. That's what I think is a big issue for independents...most just make something that is different.

 

[Dino944]

Kind of the reason why I don't really spend money on watches even though they hold their value better than my other hobby of bespoke clothes and shoes. At least with the bespoke stuff, the cutters/shoemakers aren't going to tell me to bundle purchases or treat me like sh1t.

I heard recently that a few women are suing Hermes because sales associates suggested if they bundled purchases or buy a bunch of slow selling items to build a buying history/relationship, they will be able to get a Birkin. They bought a bunch of stuff they didn't want and still don't have Birkins. What a bunch of idiots!

 

[Ebitdaddy]

underwhelmed in terms of overall design, or they are just plain weird or ugly

With every hobby, I gravitate towards weird I guess haha

 

[pmeis]

With every hobby, I gravitate towards weird I guess haha

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Man...I think you are me with a bigger budget...

 

[Neville Southall]

or treat me like sh1t.

That's what our Waffle House meetings are for, bruh.