The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre,

[Scuppers]

Apples and oranges.

 

[am55]

Indeed. The apples from my grandmother's garden were infinitely more complex and interesting in flavour, differing from tree to tree, at the cost of being smaller and less watery and sweet than the industrial variety one can find in global supermarkets whether from NZ or ZA. But must focus on what sells.

 

[mebiuspower]

 

[mebiuspower]

 

[Clouseau]

Someone said Piaget?

 

[Dino944]

To be clear: I don't think any of these brands should be doing sports watches. I think it dilutes their core value proposition in the same way that the Cayenne paved the way for Porsche to become a sort of better upholstered BMW whilst Ferrari retains that kids' dreams character.

Don't get me wrong, I understand why these brands are tempted, and financially speaking it has become a wonderful business for them. But think of your 1980s air cooled 911 with no AC and look at the modern versions which are slightly sportier Passats with less room at the back. Case in point: the B3 Passat was 180.1 x 67.1 x 59.1 inches. The 2023 911 is 178.5 x 74.8 (wider!) x 51.3 inches, pretty close.

AP is probably the most hurt by the RO contamination.

And yes, I put the Breguet Type XXI in there; but somehow the brand is not laser focused on iterating on those at the expense of the "industrial haute horlogerie" that they are famous for.

Well, we may have to agree to disagree. While some companies have done a better job of creating, marketing, and incorporating a luxury sports watch into their line up than others, I wouldn't say that brands shouldn't be selling them or that it dilutes their core values.

Not everyone likes or has a use for a dress watch on a strap. Tastes, needs, and expectations have to evolve for a company to survive and remain relevant.

I'm not a fan of big SUVs, but as someone who grew up in the Northeast, I could see why Porsche made the Cayenne (even if I have no desire to own one). It's tough to sell small rear or even AWD sports cars with low ground clearance in the winter. As for 911s, in the 1980's at least US models with the exception of the 911 Club Sport, came standard with air conditioning. It was woefully inadequate, and felt like a mouse breathing on you in 80F + temperatures, but it was standard equipment. Yes, 911s have gotten much larger, and that is one of my least favorite changes over the years (along with giving them automatic transmissions). However, cars have changed in general in terms of size, weight, required safety equipment, performance, and what we expect in terms of creature comforts. Furthermore, today most people can't drive a stick. In addition, the people buying air coooled 911s today are different than they were years ago. Today, its purchased more by collectors or hobbyists, who don't drive them in the rain and put them in storage for the winter. Back in the day, the cars weren't babied, they were daily drivers regardless of the weather.

Many brands have done a good job of creating sports watches that align with their brand's values, quality and the needs of their consumers. From time to time they lose their way, GP's Laureato Evos looked bloated and silly, Breguet's Type XX (or whatever number they are up to using now) seem to have continued to get bulkier without a good reason, and Piaget's Polo seems a bit lost. However, I think most luxury sports watches are good choices for any Porsche drivers regardless of whether it's air cooled, water cooled, automatic or an SUV .

 

[9thsymph]

Not for Porsche drivers, obvs:

 

[FlithyButler]

Indeed. The apples from my grandmother's garden were infinitely more complex and interesting in flavour, differing from tree to tree, at the cost of being smaller and less watery and sweet than the industrial variety one can find in global supermarkets whether from NZ or ZA. But must focus on what sells.

How d'ya like them apples' market dynamics??

... dOn'T hAtE tHe PlAyAs HaTe ThE gAmE.

 

[JamesInLondon]

Someone said Piaget?

View attachment 2077729

Currently have one in my collection, this WG one.

But I love what they are currently doing with their ladies watches and they justifiably won at the GPHG this year, mine was one of their votes.

 

[JamesInLondon]

Currently have one in my collection, this WG one.

But I love what they are currently doing with their ladies watches and they justifiably won at the GPHG this year, mine was one of their votes.

And, if they made this lapis dial piece in WG or Platinum, I would buy it in a heartbeat

 

[Purplelabel]

NYC

 

[mebiuspower]

Last Tuesday I was invited by the guys at Bandiera Jewellers to attend a F.P. Journe workshop at Ferrari of Toronto. There were 3 FPJ employees in attendance including Pierre Halimi, General Manger of Montres Journe America.

Pierre have known Mr. Journe years before he started his own brand. He has been with the company for 24 years. The first point he made in the beginning of the presentation was, and I am paraphrasing here - Woman buys something because they like it. But men, men have to justify their purchase, because we’re nuts. He then proceeds to ask the crowd how many of us own a Moon Watch, and about 8 out of 10 people from the crowd raised their hands. He then asked, how many of us are planning to go to the moon? No hands were raised and we had a good chuckle.

Pierre was surprised how many people were in attendance and could stand to sit for 2 hours to hear them speak. In the crowd there were people wearing current reference Rolex Daytona in steel, Vacheron Oversea Chrono blue dial and a few FPJ, including Chronomètre Souverain and Chronomètre Bleu. I have a feeling Ferrari of Toronto had invited some of their own customers to this event.

I have attached below the interview of him with Tim Mosso from a few years back, which pretty much covered most of what he discussed in the evening.



Pierre also shared an interesting story of how he hired one of the employees present, Vasil N. He said he was at the Detroit airport at the TSA security check point, the TSA agent noticed he was wearing a Journe and Berluti shoes. He was shocked that this TSA guy can just identify his watch and shoes, and he proceed to asked him what would he really want to do with his life. As anyone can imagine, Vasil is a watch enthusiast and would love to work for any watch company, let alone for F.P. Journe. Pierre got his contact information and offered him a job soon after.

Interesting enough, I was told that Bandiera Jewellers will lose their AD status this year as FPJ simply cannot supply enough watches. FPJ supplies about 400 pieces annually to the Americas, but Canada received zero pieces this year. They produce approx. 1000 pieces a year.

I get the sentiment that Mr. Journe has a distaste for luxury groups. Speak to any reputable watchmaker that worked for any large luxury groups and you will almost hear the same feedback. Journe was the first watchmaker that broke away and started his own independent brand successfully. It was a long and hard journey for him to build dial, case and movements fully in-house. I was told he does not own fancy cars nor luxury properties and all his money are put back into the business. I have to give him credit where credit is due. I have also learned that Chanel owns 20 percent of the company. Mr. Journe remains the designer, engineer, production manager of the company and it appears that he makes all the executive decisions himself akin to the automotive world to the likes of Gordon Murray and Horacio Pagani. There’s no committee when it comes to making his creations.

When I first asked their sales rep Ramos, why do they use gold as movement material? His answer was “because gold is non-ferrous.” But after a quick google search, brass is also non-ferrous. During the presentation, Pierre mentioned that FPJ watches are very easy to get magnetized, due to how tight all the components are fit together to keep the watch thin.

Ramos also explained Journe does not like to use white gold, as there is no such thing as white gold since it has to be mixed with other materials in order to get white gold. But he failed to mention 18K rose gold used on their watches is also mixed – It’s 75% gold, 22.25% copper, 2.75% silver, since pure gold in 24K is too soft of a material.

In terms of allocation, they do not require a deposit. If you want, say, the Chronometre Souverain, you’re looking at 3 years wait. For something more unique and interesting like the Elegante, they are currently not accepting names. And they want to create a relationship with you, which means the more visits you make to their 3 US boutiques – LA, NY and Miami, the higher chance you will get your watch.

At the end of the event, I went up to Pierre and I told him, “You’re wearing Alden shoes and Hermes ties.” He started to laugh and then I said “So can I work for FPJ now?”

 

[am55]

Well, we may have to agree to disagree. While some companies have done a better job of creating, marketing, and incorporating a luxury sports watch into their line up than others, I wouldn't say that brands shouldn't be selling them or that it dilutes their core values.

Not everyone likes or has a use for a dress watch on a strap. Tastes, needs, and expectations have to evolve for a company to survive and remain relevant.

I'm not a fan of big SUVs, but as someone who grew up in the Northeast, I could see why Porsche made the Cayenne (even if I have no desire to own one). It's tough to sell small rear or even AWD sports cars with low ground clearance in the winter. As for 911s, in the 1980's at least US models with the exception of the 911 Club Sport, came standard with air conditioning. It was woefully inadequate, and felt like a mouse breathing on you in 80F + temperatures, but it was standard equipment. Yes, 911s have gotten much larger, and that is one of my least favorite changes over the years (along with giving them automatic transmissions). However, cars have changed in general in terms of size, weight, required safety equipment, performance, and what we expect in terms of creature comforts. Furthermore, today most people can't drive a stick. In addition, the people buying air coooled 911s today are different than they were years ago. Today, its purchased more by collectors or hobbyists, who don't drive them in the rain and put them in storage for the winter. Back in the day, the cars weren't babied, they were daily drivers regardless of the weather.

Many brands have done a good job of creating sports watches that align with their brand's values, quality and the needs of their consumers. From time to time they lose their way, GP's Laureato Evos looked bloated and silly, Breguet's Type XX (or whatever number they are up to using now) seem to have continued to get bulkier without a good reason, and Piaget's Polo seems a bit lost. However, I think most luxury sports watches are good choices for any Porsche drivers regardless of whether it's air cooled, water cooled, automatic or an SUV .

My neighbour in the Alps had a 1980s air cooled 911 as a daily driver, and we dealt with snow, ice sheets and rocky dirt tracks (not to mention salt). So I disagree, you just need to accept the work and the discomfort and you can use them in snowy weather and I also think you should be sympathetic to this argument given you choose to daily drive a Dino.

I think it comes down to how you see brands. Some people like to buy everything from one name (e.g. Nissan - from GT-R to Elgrand). Some people myself included prefer great specialists. My ideal garage would have a 70 to 100 series (maybe even 105) Landcruiser as the "SUV"; maybe a Y61 Patrol or earlier (yes, both lines unavailable in the US, sadly). It feels wrong to have it built by Porsche. My kids and grandkids will see Porsche the way we saw Mercedes: comfortable highway drivers for the middle aged to retired living in the suburbs, and small SUVs for the soccer mom who wants to upgrade her Honda CRV (which, let's remember, stands for "Comfortable Runabout Vehicle", a good description of most of Porsche's sales by volume). Foo felt the need to buy the most extreme vehicle in the lineup to find excitement, but that's a bit like the Phaeton and VW or the Supra and Toyota. And that is profoundly alien to someone who knew Porsche up to the 1990s.

Similarly most people today will associate AP with a simple steel sports watch and not carefully hand built, complex artisanal creations (which they themselves echo with the Remaster01 for example) like Vacheron is still mostly doing. And as you know I don't think they're "dress" watches. A sober gold watch on a neat brown strap is a great casual option. A time only ultrathin Vacheron, or even a Tank as we discussed before, also look great. Maybe not to everyone's taste, but less offensively so than a G shock with a suit.

(photo from here)

 

[Clouseau]

Someone said Vacheron ? 🤭

 

[Wild Strawberry Rabbit]