The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre,

[TheFoo]

It's rich being accused of gatekeeping by the guy who once asserted that one needs to have 10+ suits made in order to have a valid opinion on bespoke clothing. And that's just the first example that comes to mind.

It’s really quite a problem when a forum owner has reading comprehension issues and then attempts to mischaracterize a forum member. Go back and read what I wrote about gaining experience from a tailor and see if you can muster a better understanding.

Easier if I re-phrase? Fine. I said it takes 10+ suits from a tailor to really understand his worth as a tailor, given the iterative nature of tailoring. I stand by this. A really good tailor must be consistent, which takes multiple orders to evaluate. He may also take a few orders to really nail down your pattern. And that’s to say nothing about handling different types of jacket (e.g., single vs. double-breasted), trousers (e.g., pleats vs. no pleats, belt vs. braces), or cloth.

Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying, doesn’t know better, or selling something.

 

[Newcomer]

I bought a Patek just so I could have an opinion.

 

[montecristo#2]

By the way, I have handled countless Langes and Pateks. Both are very nicely made. Overall workmanship is similar. But Pateks have a more handmade feel (largely owing to case finishing), wear thinner, and boast a history and tradition that Lange simply cannot match.

Also, has it occurred to you that it might take “IBPE bonus checks” to afford prolific experience with these watches? Ownership imparts a depth of perspective that window shopping and article reading cannot.

Lange’s have the build quality of a Mercedes. Patek more like a Peugeot. I compare my Patek Pilot to my Lange 1 moonphase. Both the same price point. Patek has a movement that’s too small. Its rotor makes a loud whirring noise when it spins to winds the watch. It doesn’t hack and the seconds hand does weird **** when you set it. When you push the crown back in after setting it, the minutes hand moves slightly. This is okay because it’s a visually pleasing watch and a piece of art, but the Lange kills it as a pice of machinery. It has none of those issues, plus has lovely nuances like setting the seconds to zero automatically when it runs out of power. And under a loupe, the movement finishing is just better.

I don’t think that it’s the IBPEs who own 10-20 high end watches — the ones with “prolific experience” — who are powering f the demand in this market. It’s the much larger number of guys who have one or two watches, looking to check the “I made it” box with a Rollie or RO or PP. This seems really obvious to me. For the Rolex market, the volumes are so high that I don’t see how anyone could argue otherwise. Pepsi prices are clearly not being driven by the collector community.

 

[TheFoo]

lol at the guy who just accused me of gatekeeping.

Do you have any idea what gatekeeping even means? I’m not keeping people out of the hobby by stating the OBVIOUS ******* FACT that it takes money to afford experience with expensive things.

 

[Texasmade]

I bought a Patek just so I could have an opinion.

You need to buy 10+ to make sure.

 

[LA Guy]

It’s really quite a problem when a forum owner has reading comprehension issues and then attempts to mischaracterize a forum member. Go back and read what I wrote about gaining experience from a tailor and see if you can muster a better understanding.

Easier if I re-phrase? Fine. I said it takes 10+ suits from a tailor to really understand his worth as a tailor, given the iterative nature of tailoring. I stand by this. A really good tailor must be consistent, which takes multiple orders to evaluate. He may also take a few orders to really nail down your pattern. And that’s to say nothing about handling different types of jacket (e.g., single vs. double-breasted), trousers (e.g., pleats vs. no pleats, belt vs. braces), or cloth.

Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying, doesn’t know better, or selling something.

We were talking about gatekeeping. Surely, someone who has has one or two suits made can speak to their personal experience, at least. You are invalidating, by virtue of their not having $50k+ of suits, the opinion of the vast majority of people.

By contrast, I just spelled out how people without a boatload of money can absolutely get an understanding of the cultural context of an outfit, and participate in a discussion.

Is this even a discussion in earnest?

 

[montecristo#2]

Foo also believes that you should either have a law degree, or be able to pass the naturalization test for new citizens, in order to vote.

And I agree with him!

 

[9thsymph]

Do you have any idea what gatekeeping even means? I’m not keeping people out of the hobby by stating the OBVIOUS ******* FACT that it takes money to afford experience with expensive things.

How many ALS do you own? Or were you able to experience them countlessly without having to purchase (by extension, proving it likewise possible for ANYONE - regardless of money - to countlessly experience...)?

 

[TheFoo]

Lange’s have the build quality of a Mercedes. Patek more like a Peugeot. I compare my Patek Pilot to my Lange 1 moonphase. Both the same price point. Patek has a movement that’s too small. Its rotor makes a loud whirring noise when it spins to winds the watch. It doesn’t hack and the seconds hand does weird **** when you set it. When you push the crown back in after setting it, the minutes hand moves slightly. This is okay because it’s a visually pleasing watch and a piece of art, but the Lange kills it as a pice of machinery. It has none of those issues, plus has lovely nuances like setting the seconds to zero automatically when it runs out of power. And under a loupe, the movement finishing is just better.

Hacking requires suddenly stopping the balance wheel. As such, it causes extra wear and tear on the movement. It’s not that PP/VC/AP didn’t have the know-how to implement it—the marginal functionality just wasn’t deemed worth the mechanical compromise.

So, yes, the seconds and minutes hand on your Patek will fudge around as you set the time. But your Lange is shocking its balance wheel into standstill in order to keep them in place. Which is mechanically better or worse?

Langes are, in fact, filled with mechanical compromises to serve non-mechanical purposes. The three-quarter plate construction comes to top of mind. It is silly and pointless, only adding thickness, with the sole purpose of looking more like an old-timey pocket watch movement.

Your Lange 1 doesn’t have a rotor in the first place. So, obviously, it is more silent.

I don’t think that it’s the IBPEs who own 10-20 high end watches — the ones with “prolific experience” — who are powering f the demand in this market. It’s the much larger number of guys who have one or two watches, looking to check the “I made it” box with a Rollie or RO or PP. This seems really obvious to me. For the Rolex market, the volumes are so high that I don’t see how anyone could argue otherwise. Pepsi prices are clearly not being driven by the collector community.

The big, influential collectors … influence.

 

[Texasmade]

Also #speedytuesday

Have my modded FOIS “ultra thin”

 

[TheFoo]

How many ALS do you own?

None!

 

[9thsymph]

None!

And yet you have an informed opinion? How? You don’t OWN one. You’ve just “handled” them. Seems like this could then apply to anyone, with any watch.

this you:
“OBVIOUS ******* FACT that it takes money to afford experience with expensive things.“?

 

[Neville Southall]

Foo also believes that you should either have a law degree, or be able to pass the naturalization test for new citizens, in order to vote.

And I agree with him!

And to have kids, too. That one's even more important than voting.

 

[9thsymph]

(warning: severe rhetorical contortions about to drop...)

 

[am55]

Lange’s have the build quality of a Mercedes. Patek more like a Peugeot. I compare my Patek Pilot to my Lange 1 moonphase. Both the same price point. Patek has a movement that’s too small. Its rotor makes a loud whirring noise when it spins to winds the watch. It doesn’t hack and the seconds hand does weird **** when you set it. When you push the crown back in after setting it, the minutes hand moves slightly. This is okay because it’s a visually pleasing watch and a piece of art, but the Lange kills it as a pice of machinery.

@RJman Peugeots "kill it as a piece of machinery" compared to Mercs. Can you confirm manufacturing quality of both brands has evolved in that direction? I haven't driven in France for like 5-7 years, amazing how fast things can change eh