The Ultimate Toronto Thread

[rwtc]

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Isn't there an entire store (based in Brooklyn) for which this forum is the official shilling website? I need to be careful, badmouthing it may get me banned...


just a friendly note--
Solomeo is a town in Umbria, on the outskirts of Perugia. Umbria is a region in Central Italy. It's not in Puglia, which is the heel, in Southern Italy.

Also, many brands offer down vests.
Mandelli, for instance.

Mandelli Down Vest in Green | SARTALE

Down Vest in Green by Mandelli . Mandelli signature style unites the past and present through balancing simple and sophisticated design with premium quality. We deliver worldwide within 2-4 days.

sartale.com

Mandelli cannot be found in Canadian stores.

I believe President Putin is a big fan of down-filled cashmere vests, can often be seen wearing one.

Thank you for the corrections. I got the two Ps mixed up.

I have never heard of Mandelli before but well noted. Price wise a bit more expensive (wool cotton mix) than a leather exterior BC goose down vest on sale, but all good, and that's why we all search for deals.

I did say leather exterior but you're right - some other manufacturers probably carries it. My apologies. I thought perhaps Borrelli might have a few but I don't see any. If there are other brands, it would have to be a smaller RTW brand without a global reach.

The Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia is also a big fan of the goose down vests, including from Cucinelli and Franck Namani. Putin is usually a big fan of Loro Piana and Kiton I believe.

 

[NVPG]

I’ve got two down puffer vests…A nylon Cucinelli and a wool knit Stone Island. The only way the Cucinelli would be superior would be if it was cashmere, otherwise the Stone Island’s unique construction/fill/overall quality is arguably better than the Cucinelli (at a way lower cost). I get the style appeal of Cucinelli but it isn’t always the most impressive. I’m not even sure if I’m disagreeing with anything you said or not, I just think other cheaper brands can easily compete when it comes to some of their products.

 

[Encore]

just sold 2 Cucinelli jackets for 750 CAD. I believe they are both fused canvas, not much handwork that I can identify.

 

[partenopean]

The Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia is also a big fan of the goose down vests, including from Cucinelli and Franck Namani. Putin is usually a big fan of Loro Piana and Kiton I believe.

You are indeed correct.
Here is the Crown Prince of Saudi, in a rare appearance not wearing Arab robes.
Here he is seen at a visit to Lockheed Martin, shopping for missiles he is going to buy to fire at Yemen.

Here he is, the Custodian and Guardian of those Holies Twinn'd, in fusion Arab-"Western" clothes, sporting the Cucinelli vest:

Such panache!
Riyadh meets Solomeo:

No blood stains on that ultrasoft kidskin either!

Demand goes through the roof for Saudi Crown Prince’s AlUla Brunello Cucinelli’s zip-up gilet

DUBAI: Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman was spotted on Friday at a restaurant called Somewhere in AlUla, and fashion lovers on Twitter have once again gone wild over a vest that he wore. The crown prince championed the Italian brand Brunello Cucinelli’s zip-up gilet in white and beige. The...

www.arabnews.com

And to give you a sense of scale and proportion, behold His Highness, here with my favorite person, Mark Zuckerberg. The Lord of Oil and the Lord of the Metaverse together...how can all those servers running the Metaverse be powered without oil?

 

[Spaghettimatt]

Not sure “worn by Putin and MBS” is a selling point. It makes the brand less desirable imo.

 

[mebiuspower]

A Blancpain?

 

[rwtc]

I’ve got two down puffer vests…A nylon Cucinelli and a wool knit Stone Island. The only way the Cucinelli would be superior would be if it was cashmere, otherwise the Stone Island’s unique construction/fill/overall quality is arguably better than the Cucinelli (at a way lower cost). I get the style appeal of Cucinelli but it isn’t always the most impressive. I’m not even sure if I’m disagreeing with anything you said or not, I just think other cheaper brands can easily compete when it comes to some of their products.

Certainly no need to agree, as there are stylistic preference for everyone. But you’re not necessarily in disagreement either. All I am saying is, BC does produce some very nice pieces and is not fair to paint the entire brand a certain way, given a limited sample size. Fair?

BC has different lines of vests at different fill strengths. You can really tell the difference in their fill used if for example you wore a thick down filled parka, and you feel how light the garment is because of the high loft goose down fill, for which they can manufacture with cashmere or leather exteriors, which are genuinely quite nice. For their thinner vests, you can barely feel any weight to it.

I have no experience with stone island so can’t speak to their fill or fill technology, but they appear to use Icelandic duck down. Perfectly fine. Especially for thinner vests, it can be difficult to feel a difference. And if you like Stone Island’s styles more, then ask the more power to you since you save some money too

Cheaper brands can certainly compete - SuSu and SM copied some of their vest designs pretty much 1:1 as an example. SM copied a few sweater designs as well. I’ve touched the material from the comparatively cheaper brands - it was completely different from the fabric that BC uses. Not saying that’s better or worse. As well, these two brands use duck down rather than goose.

At the end of the day, it depends on whether these things matter to the consumer. It matters to some, it doesn’t for others. People can choose what to buy. Just like duvets and pillows… the consumer chooses whether they want synthetic, duck feather, duck down, or Goose Down, along with a variety of full strengths and weights.

To clarify, I was specific to one product category to prove a point (leather exterior goose down vests). The menswear industry is very much a high competition industry.

There are certain product segments that cheaper brands will have a tough time competing with, and that will definitely be outerwear. BC produces some magnificent pieces, including full cashmere or leather parkas lined in shearling, that are very nice.

 

[JohnMRobie]

Not sure “worn by Putin and MBS” is a selling point. It makes the brand less desirable imo.

What’s the world coming to when you can’t count on.. *checks notes* murderous thugs to reflect good taste and for suggestions on overpriced menswear…

 

[Jamesbond1]

Nice hit piece on instagram.



So the full story was, and this is not a biased account, for which I hope any reasonable individual would consider:


I went to Brenton & Co some summers ago - when the person in question worked at Brenton as a sales associate - with three Attolini jackets for some buttonholes to be done. 2 cashmere, 1 super 150s, 4 buttonholes on each cuff. The end result was:

Holes were different length
Holes weren't even even parallel
Holes had very poor stitching

My only regret was not taking a picture of it.

The entire process took 2-3 months, not "1 week" as what his post seemed to suggest.



I respected his love for tailoring so I didn't share this experience online or write anything negative about said experience. At the end of the day - said person wasn't the one that did the botch job on the three pieces.

Ira (the owner of Brenton) offered to comp, but I still paid the fee in full.

I have never in my life saw such poorly done buttonholes, much less on 3 Attolini pieces. Yes, I was very unhappy, but not to the degree that was sensationalized in the hit piece.

This begs the question - how come the said person never caught the issue in the first place?




I decided to give the shop a second try at Ira's suggestion. So I commissioned something seemingly simple - a skirt for my wife. Unfortunately, the skirt had bubbling due to poor fit, that took four fittings to resolve. This too, should have been more easily rectified. But it was not.



If this person has made you a suit you love and you loved the results, that's perfectly fine. I respect that. However, based on my two interactions while he was working as the sales associate, I did not have positive experiences as outlined above.



It was stated that, all Cucinelli jackets was made from fused glued crap. I provided contrary evidence.

Then it was stated, that Cucinelli could not be seen as a luxury brand, based on deconstructing one garment. I provided a contrary view, one that was fact based and not biased, whereby I provided photos of multiple garments (2 jackets and 2 coats). Moreover, in terms of goose down leather exterior vests, there are pretty much three brands that produce vests of that sort. The person didn't provide further comment. But I think to the reasonable person, if a garment is only made by Kiton / Loro Piana / Cucinelli with materials with higher material cost alongside with better paid employees, would that not make it a more luxurious garment?

Then it was stated, that my belief in the production quality is "false" due to marketing. In my definition of good quality, there is evidence of plenty handmade details, quality fabrics, well paid staff, and more. These traits can be found in countless Cucinelli garments.

I also showed some pictures of handmade double cloth cashmere pieces for interest (two cloths are sewn together and you can see the stitches per my photos), which Cucinelli has produced for a long time. And the other company to do this is Kiton, which in many circles is considered a top notch luxury brand.

The above, combined with the fact that the employees are paid a living wage, makes Cucinelli a desirable, modern, luxury

Thank you for the corrections. I got the two Ps mixed up.

I have never heard of Mandelli before but well noted. Price wise a bit more expensive (wool cotton mix) than a leather exterior BC goose down vest on sale, but all good, and that's why we all search for deals.

I did say leather exterior but you're right - some other manufacturers probably carries it. My apologies. I thought perhaps Borrelli might have a few but I don't see any. If there are other brands, it would have to be a smaller RTW brand without a global reach.

The Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia is also a big fan of the goose down vests, including from Cucinelli and Franck Namani. Putin is usually a big fan of Loro Piana and Kiton I believe.

And I am not a fan of all the douche bags that you are mentioning here that wear this awesome so called handmade jacket that has more glue inside than a glue factory.

If you like the brand all power to you to buy BC and enjoy it. My made to measure jackets from China are more handmade than BC jackets. And I don’t buy them with blood money like Putin does. The crown prince of Saudi Arabia is a disgrace and a horrible person!!
I think you need to already move on with this BC saga. Name dropping of horrible people is not going to help the BC brand. Adding more fusing/ glue is 🤣

 

[RapFan]

You guys think murderous thugs don't wear bespoke?

Here's bomb dropping murderer Barack Obama in a bespoke George De Paris suit

 

[Jamesbond1]

You guys think murderous thugs don't wear bespoke?

Here's bomb dropping murderer Barack Obama in a bespoke George De Paris suit View attachment 1920973

What I posted yesterday on IG

 

[KWang94]

Y'all need to chill, my god. A bunch of grown ass men getting triggered over whether cucinelli stuff is handmade

 

[induere_to]

What I had once thought were obviously ‘indirect’ notifications about my former employer are apparently not as obvious after all. So, with my hard attempts not to throw certain people under the bus, I guess I have no choice.

When I managed Spier and Mackay, I created a back-of-house system to maintain paid-for items that had not yet left the store. Alterations, made to measure, holds, etc. the goal was to under promise and over deliver. For those of you that may recall, before I became a manager, I sometimes had to call customers to inform them that there would be a delay with their alterations and they wouldn’t be ready when originally promised. Once I became manager, with the system I had enabled, we’d promise at least two weeks to every one no matter what, and we were calling people back a week before promised to pick up their items. It was so effective actually, that the Mississauga store sent us their alterations because they were so backed up and we were ahead. There were still some hiccups here and there because well, that’s life and nothing is perfect.

The way things worked at Brenton was that there was no system, for anything. There’s a central calendar for the entire shop where everyone schedules their appointments. But instead of promising a customer a date for pick-up “When is he coming in?” To which my reply would be, “well, when will it get done?” “Tell them Friday.” And then I’d respond, “let’s get it done Thursday and then I’ll call him once it’s in my hands on Friday.” Which, as was always the case, it wouldn’t get done. But without a date, nothing would get worked on, the shop somehow thought it would be most successful operating on a last-minute-priority business method.

We had a blue jays player request a tux for the teams gala last summer. We had three wedding parties to finish for the weekend; but the big man himself said this was our newest priority. We made Alek Manoah a tux in three days and the associates had to do damage control for the wedding parties that didn’t get to pick-up their suits on time. None of the wedding parties were Iras customers. When schedules became mismanaged, and priorities had to be organized, somehow, Iras clients’ always got worked on first. And all the other associates got pushed back.

My very first day as an associate, reading through copy-and-pasted on-boarding pdfs that claimed Brenton to be ‘The Greatest Bespoke Shop in North America’ (I might still have them, at least pictures I took to send to some friends), a customer walked in for a final fitting. I watched the most abominable fitting I have ever witnessed occur. Suit fit terribly and the poor customer that claimed to not know tailoring had even echoed the same opinion. After the customer left, Ira turns to me and says “yeah, sorry you had to see that. I don’t want you to have the wrong impression of what we can do.” Thirty slow seconds go by and he adds, “actually, you know what? We gave the suit to him on a discount, so I really don’t care if it looks like ****.”

Anyways, this is how the buttonhole fiasco played out:

Guy asks online where he can get buttonholes done.

Me, asking the shop if we do it. I was told yes. So I reply saying we can do it.

Guy online asks how much.

I turn my head and ask how much.

I post the price that was given to me.

I was a messenger. I only provided information that was provided to me. And unfortunately none of it turned out to be accurate. Of course it’s going to make me look bad and that’s why I stopped taking on customers until I became an apprentice.

Those of you that visit me frequently have all heard the stories. The company is a **** Show, always has been and always will be. The company is run by a guy that knows absolutely nothing about tailoring. His Instagram ads that mention Brenton being the ‘only true handmade bespoke shop in Toronto’ features the guy himself, drafting a pattern… with the fabric upside down. If one were to walk in and ask about house cut, he would go on and on name dropping other companies. Blah blah blah rubinacci, blah blah cucinelli, blah blah Dege and Skinner, blah blah savile row this and Napoli that. He can’t even tell you how his garments are made. It took me a year into my apprenticeship before I realized how their production even worked and I was a part of the production team. They started sampling factories, but yet they’d still walk customers through the basement and tell them everything was made there. It’s an empire built on lies and this is exactly why I’m doing what I can to educate people about how to detect red flags that separate bespoke from shitspoke and by taking things apart, I can expose the reality of some of these brands’ marketing trickery. I cannot apologize for cucinelli using so much fusing and my next disassembly will be Ermengildo Zegna. Maybe it’ll upset people, maybe it won’t. But my intentions are to educate, and not to upset.

Now, thanks to my apprenticeship, I have learned how to do buttonholes and I think they keep looking better and better and I take a lot of pride in them. And for those that continue to work with me, they know that I deliver buttonholes within days, latest a week if I’m busy and I have to additionally alter the sleeve. My buttonholes are not always perfect, and I still stand behind the charm of imperfection.

One of the forum members recently brought me an impeccably fitted pair of bespoke trousers he had made by a Neapolitan tailoring house. This is how they fit:

These are the buttonholes:

I don’t think I need to post evidence of my buttonholes because they’ve been reviewed by customers on this forum already.

So honestly, I do apologize that you had a crappy experience getting buttonholes done at that place. Of course, I would have been disappointed too. Before I worked for the company, I gave them the last run of a deadstock fabric for a cmt project that these guys accepted and agreed to do for me, they kept prolonging my fitting even up to when I first started working for them. Suddenly one day they tried buying me coffee and breakfast and I knew something was up so I told them to come out with it and they said, ‘we lost your fabric, we think it got thrown away.’ I didn’t raise my voice, I didn’t curse, I didn’t insult anyone. I accepted that accidents happen and they offered to replace the fabric. I was more pissed off that they lost the fabric a month before promising me a second fitting date.

 

[Jamesbond1]

Y'all need to chill, my god. A bunch of grown ass men getting triggered over whether cucinelli stuff is handmade

On my way to the shooting range!! 🤣

 

[mebiuspower]

On my way to the shooting range!! 🤣

Very poor way to aim.