The Ultimate Toronto Thread

[induere_to]

Though it is absolutely none of your business, Brenton didn't pay me at all. I was an apprentice... under their tailor, Tony.

With that said, I still saw how their garments were made... because, well... I made them. And even though their garments suck, and the sales people there are as clueless as a Christian in a Science debate, the construction was far superior to the Cucinelli garment I took apart yesterday.

Note: I took apart ONE Cucinelli jacket, which was part of a Cucinelli suit, which was purchased at regular price from a luxury store and is not a knock-off. That is a fact and not an opinion; it is a garment that Cucinelli made, and put on the market for public purchase. My opinion, is that a knock-off Cucinelli would be better made than the one I took apart yesterday. Is it possible that Cucinelli has had different production processes? Absolutely. Also a fact. And if you have a jacket you'd like me to take apart, please, I'll happily accept it and write an honest, informative review. Highlighting absolutely nothing but facts.

 

[rwtc]

I just want to let you guys know, that as someone that works in the Toronto tailoring/retail/luxury industry, it is unfortunate--though inevitable--that I must disclose that I do work on commission. I'm a tailor's apprentice, and I do get paid for my work, but for each suit, I make an average of less than $150 just for doing some general hand-assembly. It doesn't matter if you pay $2,000 or $7,500 at Brenton, I will still only make less than $150. That's just honest, full disclosure on my behalf.

Absolutely none of my business, but you said this quite literally in the thread, so....

 

[7_rocket]

Curious to know where you guys get your dress shoes from. I recently picked up a pair from Sons of Henrey and I have tried Meermin but that was a fail.

 

[RapFan]

Gotta love the casual insult to someone's faith...ridiculous.

 

[induere_to]

Piece work.

Brenton profits, paid through production, aka Tony, the tailor.

Not by Brenton. Fact not opinion.

You have nothing left to say about my Cucinelli dissection, instead you want to argue with me about how I'm paid?

...

A Christian in a Science debate is just as ridiculous as a Scientist in a Theological debate.

Like a consumer in a production debate.

 

[rwtc]

Piece work.

Brenton profits, paid through production, aka Tony, the tailor.

Not by Brenton. Fact not opinion.

You have nothing left to say about my Cucinelli dissection, instead you want to argue with me about how I'm paid?

...

A Christian in a Science debate is just as ridiculous as a Scientist in a Theological debate.

Like a consumer in a production debate.

I think it's clear who the piece of work is

 

[mebiuspower]

Curious to know where you guys get your dress shoes from. I recently picked up a pair from Sons of Henrey and I have tried Meermin but that was a fail.

There's very little options now in the city. How much do you want to spend?

You're probably better off just flying to NYC as they have most of the stores there for EG, CJ, Carmina, AE, Alden, etc.

 

[KWang94]

There's very little options now in the city. How much do you want to spend?

You're probably better off just flying to NYC as they have most of the stores there for EG, CJ, Carmina, AE, Alden, etc.

Agreed, not too many local shoe options here. Robert Jones is an option although they probably have limited stock now that they're winding down. Lost & Found does carry Carmina but very limited sizes (dunno if you can request for them to order specific sizes if you're a smaller dude like me).

I've typically just gone to specific shoe stores that have interested me whenever I go on vacation.

 

[Ranjeev]

Generally, I get my dress shoes from NYC or London or online if I feel good about sizing or its an interesting brand that I want to try out. Toronto is a tough place to get dress shoes.

 

[mebiuspower]

Toronto is a tough place to get dress shoes.

Because if they want to go fancy, they just go buy a pair of Ferragamo or Santoni at HR...

 

[othertravel]

I had a bad experience at Harry's yesterday. One of the SAs really got under my skin.

 

[RapFan]

Your best choice is Harry Rosen on bloor. It's the only place that has at least some sort if range.

I was in Newman's Menswear in Hamilton this week. They carried a good selection of Aldens and even Ring Jacket.

 

[FreshSalmon]

View attachment 1919067

After my last entry dissecting the Attolini jacket, many people reached out regarding how much they enjoyed my informative description regarding everything I discovered within the lining. Several of you have offered to give me your old never-to-be-worn-again garments. Well, today I received a package from the States, it had several garments inside of it but I was most excited about one of them in particular. A Cucinelli suit, though my dissection for this entry only features the jacket. A removal of the sleeve and a slight curiosity what I would find under the facing.

View attachment 1919065

Jacket is a 48/38R, therefore the previous owner had the sleeves lengthened. I will only critique construction based on original production. This is why there is only two handmade buttonholes, done by the alteration tailor that did the work post-purchase. Aside from some buttonholes that was posted by another poster previously, I have only ever seen Cucinelli garments with machine buttonholes. Several ex-Cucinelli employees that are friends of mine were able to back this up. However, I know that Cucinelli production has changed a lot from previous B2B production to their now own private manufacturing.

View attachment 1919069

One thing that baffled a co-worker of mine was the shoulder construction, which used canvas as the sleevehead, but only on the front and back of the armhole. This is obviously intended to keep the front and back of the sleeve looking clean and rounded but not to take away any of the shirring from the centre.

View attachment 1919073

Between each canvassed sleeve head is domette, which I have found used as the sleevehead in Attolini jackets in the past. It's a soft fabric that is also used to canvas construction of chest pieces. Along the domette, you can see the many different stitches that display the steps that go into the sleeve construction of a jacket.

View attachment 1919077

View attachment 1919075

The picture below, displays the construction of a Neapolitan sleeve, this is how I was taught to do them, however the sleeves I've dismantled in the past doing alterations from companies like Attolini or Orazio Luciano do not make them this way. There are two slits that are cut into the top-sleeve panel, and pressed backward into the shoulder, the picture above shows the top-stitching (machine) that holds the fabric back keeping it place.

View attachment 1919079

One thing I have not seen with any garment, is fusing along the edge of the top-sleeve, this is done for fast, mass-production. Sleeves are hung faster and with more ease and is a good example of cheap manufacturing. Behind the armhole seam, you can see the shoulder seam running perpendicular into the armhole. The fabric of the suit is a pinstripe, so that flat, blue non-pinstripe material you see holding the shoulder together is just more fusing.

View attachment 1919081

Hanging the jacket sans sleeve. From this picture you can see how soft the Cuccinelli shoulder is, there isn't a lot of padding. I was going to save it for my next post when I take apart the skeleton of the jacket, but without spoiling nor surprises, the shoulder pad is made up of a single layer of canvas and domette... from what I recall. Either way, it's pretty light.

View attachment 1919083

For comparison, the Attolini sleeve lining was attached with basting to the outseam of the jacket the same way that I was taught (only I was also taught to do the inseam as well. Cucinelli displays further examples of cheap manufacturing by anchoring the lining down with a piece of cloth to both the inseam and the outseam at the bottom near the vent opening of the cuff. Aside from these small anchors, the sleeve is mostly loose throughout the sleeve with nothing holding it in place:

View attachment 1919085

Similar to the way my bespoke garments are finished, Attolini did similar, seams, which were raised and top-stitched. This what is also what is referred to as a lapped seam. Cucinelli seams are all open, lapped seams provide durability and longevity whereas open seams are far more delicate and far easier to come undone and wear out faster. You can see that the seam was cut (similar to the neapolitan sleeve), but rather than folding both seams in the same direction and tacked down, Cucinelli leaves this seam open.

View attachment 1919087

I've noticed there can be a lot of confusion about prick-stitching and top-stitching as many people think it's done by hand. Factories use two different machines to do their edge stitching. One functions similar to a blind-stitch machine, Cuccinelli uses this on the inside of their facings and their piping. You can left up the edge and see a similar stitch pattern like that of a hemmed trouser. If you snag the stitch in the right place, you can see the whole seam unravel in just one pull. The other top-stitch machine is what you would see used along the edge of a jacket, collar, lapel, quarters and pocket flaps. It's a continuous thread that holds all of the layers together without all the mess on the bottom layer. This is what you will find on the edge of your Spier garments and other machine made products. I will include a picture at the end that shows the finishings under the collar that can exhibit how these machine stitches look.

If you look at the picture below, you can see the prick stitching runs in one continuous line crossing over from the lining to the piping of the fabric. This is something that would make no sense for any tailor to do by hand.

View attachment 1919089

The pornographic shot of the anatomy of the suit... that, unfortunately I will try to cover separately. However, because many of you have brought me Cuccinelli jackets for alterations, I can explain a lot of issues you all have with your jackets from the following pictures:

View attachment 1919091

Ironically, though you see full canvas, both the front panel and the facing are completely fused. Practically makes the full canvas useless. But what is even crazier is the lapel construction. Along the lapel crease line, we see a strip of fabric that is blind stitched to the jacket at the edge of the canvas... I have an odd suspicion that this may be Cuccinelli's really odd attempt at a bridle... Bridle-less or not, it cuts off the canvas and we don't see any more canvas run past the lapel crease. What is seen is more fusing; the lapel has absolutely zero structure to it at all. I've seen half-canvas production jackets that at least blind-stitch the lapels down.

View attachment 1919093

Alas, the only production hand-stitching I was able to uncover so far is the back of the collar sides:

View attachment 1919071

It is absolutely mind-blowing that Cucinelli suits can sell for over $4000 at Harry Rosen and become a household name with a luxury reputation, but nothing I have ever seen has had the opportunity to back this up. You can spend far less money and get superior product elsewhere. I'm getting pretty antsy and excited to start taking apart the construction of the chest and the trousers.

Good write up and photos - thanks for sharing this.

 

[othertravel]

Speaking of shoes, this a nice pair:

Santoni Carter Burnished Leather Double Monkstraps | Dress Shoes | Harry Rosen

Leather double monk-straps are a sartorial staple and this Santoni design is first rate. Flawlessly crafted in Italy, they feature a burnished calfskin upper, double monk closure, and rubber soles. An eye catching dark brown completes the elegantly masculine style.

www.harryrosen.com

 

[mebiuspower]

Speaking of shoes, this a nice pair:

Santoni Carter Burnished Leather Double Monkstraps | Dress Shoes | Harry Rosen

Leather double monk-straps are a sartorial staple and this Santoni design is first rate. Flawlessly crafted in Italy, they feature a burnished calfskin upper, double monk closure, and rubber soles. An eye catching dark brown completes the elegantly masculine style.

www.harryrosen.com

Nope. That's in fact higher than EG's retail at today's XE.