The State of Black Tie: Your Observations

[palk]

I do not understand why 2 eyelet Derbys like the Forsythes shown in the G&G page and similar plain fronted shoes are less popular for use with DJ.

I have just picked up a pair of G&G Hastings and to me a pair in highly polished black would look great as evening shoes.

I personally avoid them because of my high instep which causes unsightly creases near the vamp point; oxfords (not wholecuts) and pumps are much better for me in that regard.

 

[Winot]

I do not understand why 2 eyelet Derbys like the Forsythes shown in the G&G page and similar plain fronted shoes are less popular for use with DJ.

I have just picked up a pair of G&G Hastings and to me a pair in highly polished black would look great as evening shoes.

I guess because traditionally Derbys are meant to be less formal than Oxfords.

 

[palk]

I guess because traditionally Derbys are meant to be less formal than Oxfords.

My 2c: I wouldn't say that they are "meant" to be less formal, but rather that they tend to be less formal. The two-eyelet derbys will likely be indistinguishable from oxfords (and therefore just as formal), as the lacings are so high up that they will be completely covered by the trousers. Generally speaking, if the lacings were not fully covered by the trousers (e.g., extended further down the vamp), the inherent untidiness of the exposed open lacings might be slightly less than ideal to some.

 

[Andy57]

I've just ordered my first bespoke dinner suit (from Meyer & Mortimer, who make most of my work suits).

Style:
- jacket has side vents, heavy ribbed grosgrain facing on lapels and on jetted pockets

Anything I've missed?

Yes. Delete the side vents.

 

[classicalthunde]

Yes. Delete the side vents.

I’m curious as to how the “no vents” in black tie standards came about and what the rational for the distinction from standard suit venting rules is...

 

[archibaldleach]

I’m curious as to how the “no vents” in black tie standards came about and what the rational for the distinction from standard suit venting rules is...

The short version is that ventless is more traditional and that tradition and quasi-uniform is more important in black tie than most other dress codes we encounter. Ventless jackets can also be a bit more slimming, and with fewer moving pieces, more minimalist, which fits nicely into the spirit of black tie, where you are mostly dressing in only two colors and allowing focus to be on things other than your attire.

 

[archibaldleach]

Personally, I'd put side vents in the venial sin category. A center vent is of course an abomination that should result in immediate excommunication from the society of people who attend black tie events. I like the ventless option for the sake of tradition, because it is a bit more slimming, and also because, as someone who gets pretty much everything with side vents, it's nice to have some minor points of differentiation between my dinner jacket and my regular suits (in my case, shawl lapel, one button (versus 2), and a ventless jacket).

 

[Mark from Plano]

Personally, I'd put side vents in the venial sin category.

I was about to jump on and make this same point. I’m recently put in specs for a new black tie rig and the one departure from the true faith that I permitted myself was side vents. I feel it adds an element of comfort without seriously departing from orthodoxy.

My tailor (who shall for this purpose remain nameless) said that he put them on his dinner jacket as well. So if I am wrong at least I’ll have someone to tailor my clothing in sartorial hell.

 

[lordsuperb]

The short version is that ventless is more traditional and that tradition and quasi-uniform is more important in black tie than most other dress codes we encounter. Ventless jackets can also be a bit more slimming, and with fewer moving pieces, more minimalist, which fits nicely into the spirit of black tie, where you are mostly dressing in only two colors and allowing focus to be on things other than your attire.

 

[Winot]

I was about to jump on and make this same point. I’m recently put in specs for a new black tie rig and the one departure from the true faith that I permitted myself was side vents. I feel it adds an element of comfort without seriously departing from orthodoxy.

My tailor (who shall for this purpose remain nameless) said that he put them on his dinner jacket as well. So if I am wrong at least I’ll have someone to tailor my clothing in sartorial hell.

Yeah I had pretty much the same discussion with mine.

 

[classicalthunde]

Personally, I'd put side vents in the venial sin category. A center vent is of course an abomination that should result in immediate excommunication from the society of people who attend black tie events. I like the ventless option for the sake of tradition, because it is a bit more slimming, and also because, as someone who gets pretty much everything with side vents, it's nice to have some minor points of differentiation between my dinner jacket and my regular suits (in my case, shawl lapel, one button (versus 2), and a ventless jacket).

Yea, I get the traditional aspect, and can appreciate that it is less complex and therefore more formal (a la black cap toes vs brogues)...it just seems arbitrary that 1 vent is less formal than 2 vents, which is less formal than no vents

 

[Faux Brummell]

Here is the reasoning behind it (from The Black Tie Guide):

The original dinner jackets were made without vents then later offered with side vents. While side vents provide easier access to trouser pockets and are more comfortable to sit in, they can also make the jacket less slimming and somewhat compromise the intended formality of the tuxedo.
The center (aka single) vent is unacceptable not only because of its sporty pedigree (it is a horseback adaptation much less refined than the tailcoat's) but also because it opens up when a man reaches into his trouser pockets thus exposing the seat of his pants and often a white patch of shirt to boot. Despite its inappropriateness, the single vent is becoming more common on dinner jackets as mainstream manufacturers save money by patterning their tuxedos on standard suit styles. Fortunately, a good tailor can convert these jackets into ventless models by closing the vent

Yea, I get the traditional aspect, and can appreciate that it is less complex and therefore more formal (a la black cap toes vs brogues)...it just seems arbitrary that 1 vent is less formal than 2 vents, which is less formal than no vents

 

[jamestct]

+1 for side vents for the comfort (particularly being able to sit down in comfort with a double breasted jacket fastened) and pocket access reasons.

 

[Andy57]

+1 for side vents for the comfort (particularly being able to sit down in comfort with a double breasted jacket fastened) and pocket access reasons.

I don’t get this comfort thing. None of my dinner jackets have vents. As far as comfort goes, they are no different than my suit jackets, which all have side vents.

 

[archibaldleach]

I don’t get this comfort thing. None of my dinner jackets have vents. As far as comfort goes, they are no different than my suit jackets, which all have side vents.

Indeed. Comfort is often a state of mind rather than anything physical. I won't claim that's true for everyone, but if someone thinks "ventless = uncomfortable," that may be enough. Of course, this could all be a reaction to an uncomfortable rental tux that happened to be ventless, where the problem lies with the rental tux and not it being ventless. If one's clothes fit, they shouldn't be uncomfortable.