The State of Black Tie: Your Observations

[classicalthunde]

Interested in the opinion of the crowd: Thoughts on a midnight blue dinner jacket w/ black tuxedo pants?

Background: Getting a standard tuxedo rig for my wedding (black, grosgrain peak, 1 button, jetted pockets). I'm interested in a classic look and feel that this is most versatile (i.e. can be used for other black tie events regardless of season and/or wedding parties). Buuuuuut, if I wanted to add some life to it do you think it would be possible to do a midnight blue dinner jacket with silk shawls on top of the black tux pants? I know a white shawl DJ and black is pretty standard, but that would only really work during the summer. Also, I know people here would notice, but do you think silk shawl DJ lapel and and grosgrain pants trim is a venial black tie offense?

 

[Caustic Man]

She just doesn’t like how they look, reminds her too much of ballet experiences as a child I think.

I don't understand. Did she have some kind of bad experience in ballet? Or perhaps are you meaning to say that she thinks they are too feminine for a man to wear?

 

[Krish the Fish]

I don't understand. Did she have some kind of bad experience in ballet? Or perhaps are you meaning to say that she thinks they are too feminine for a man to wear?

Sorry I should have been more clear, that’s my fault. I think she finds them feminine in appearance (and remind her of the shoes she wore in ballet classes as a child). I disagree but I don’t feel strongly enough about wearing my pumps to push for them

 

[Newcomer]

My wife also will not allow me to wear pumps, period.

She thinks they look too effeminate. I think you will find that she is perhaps in the majority (especially in her age range).

 

[txm22]

Speaking of laces, I just ordered a set of satin ribbon laces for my Yohei Fukuda Lakes (plain toe oxford) that are getting delivered tomorrow. My fiancée has made one request for our wedding re: my attire: that I do not wear my EG pumps, and I figured that was tacit approval to order a pair of Fukudas that I had been eyeing. I figured satin ribbon laces would be the best way to dress up a calf oxford (albeit polished to a deep mirror shine) and make it appear more black tie appropriate for our black tie wedding next month.

Mind sharing where you found the laces? I've been looking but haven't found any that weren't for women's shoes or sneakers.

 

[Caustic Man]

I thought as much. You know, it never ceases to amaze me how wedded women are to gender norms. This isn't an aspersion toward anyone's wife. Just a general observation. I think women tend to be much more likely to cling to gender roles, and to demand that others do so as well, than men.

 

[Krish the Fish]

Mind sharing where you found the laces? I've been looking but haven't found any that weren't for women's shoes or sneakers.

These were the ones I purchased:
https://www.gentlemansgazette.com/s...-evening-shoelaces-slim-tuxedo-fort-belvedere

 

[Newcomer]

I think that women are wedded to gender norms when it comes to men (a slight distinction).

 

[supern0va]

Looks like I might be going to a black tie party hosted in in the Sahara. I'm thinking about making an off white dinner jacket for this event. This old Rubinacci coat is really inspiring IMHO, thoughts?

View attachment 977280

Had the same idea (though not the event), but made a cream unvented and unlined 6x1 DB linen suit anyways. Not strictly black tie, but room to dress up if need be with dark pants.

 

[Caustic Man]

I think that women are wedded to gender norms when it comes to men (a slight distinction).

Insightful observation.

 

[palk]

I find it reasonable, having been raised in a society where only women wear pumps, that people think of pumps as effeminate the same way they associate high-heeled shoes with the effiminate (interesting note: both pumps and high-heels were originally male fashions). That being said, I have a pair of pumps that I wear when I can because I consider their litheness to be most in line with the ideal of elegance that formal dress aspires to: ornate in their complete lack of embellishments, as little chunky outsole as possible and not a seam nor stitch in sight. I exhort every man with a decent formal kit to wear them. But-- if you can't wear them insouciantly, or your style tends more towards the casual (e.g., tie undone by the end of the night), then clearly pumps don't jive with your aesthetic, and it's absolutely fine by me that you stick to what works for you.

 

[aj805]

I think that women are wedded to gender norms when it comes to men (a slight distinction).

Though it's a bit of a [possibly unwelcomed] digression, I think you can strike the word "gender" from your comment and come closer to the point.

 

[Thin White Duke]

Sorry if this seems like pandering to gender stereotype but I don’t even like the way pumps (ballet flats) look on women. I really don’t like the way they look on men. Add the bows and they take a step further towards femininity. And all the sock showing above the low vamps? Not for me. Especially if they are those sheer socks that look like women’s panty hose. Urgh!

Horses for courses (of course) but I’ll stick with my lace ups. Adding gross grain laces is a nice touch but those fort Belvedere ones are waaaay too long. Someone needs to remind him that many gents’ evening shoes only have two or three pairs of closely-spaced eyelets, the laces don’t need to be three feet long!

 

[Caustic Man]

I find it reasonable, having been raised in a society where only women wear pumps, that people think of pumps as effeminate the same way they associate high-heeled shoes with the effiminate (interesting note: both pumps and high-heels were originally male fashions). That being said, I have a pair of pumps that I wear when I can because I consider their litheness to be most in line with the ideal of elegance that formal dress aspires to: ornate in their complete lack of embellishments, as little chunky outsole as possible and not a seam nor stitch in sight. I exhort every man with a decent formal kit to wear them. But-- if you can't wear them insouciantly, or your style tends more towards the casual (e.g., tie undone by the end of the night), then clearly pumps don't jive with your aesthetic, and it's absolutely fine by me that you stick to what works for you.

Whether they really are effeminate or not, and whether making that distinction is reasonable, is beside the point. It's a matter of the contrast between the fact that women are perfectly happy to wear pant suits, loafers, blazers, and all kinds of other things that have their origins in menswear whereas they are not happy to see men wear something even slightly feminine looking. Even if that thing has a long history in masculine attire, as the opera pump does. Indeed, look at the welcome, even the fawning, that women who dress in menswear get on this forum. I think it's fairly safe to say that a man attempting to dress in womenswear on a comparable women's forum would not be so welcomed. Just some things to think about.

 

[aj805]

My wife also will not allow me to wear pumps, period.

She thinks they look too effeminate. I think you will find that she is perhaps in the majority (especially in her age range).

I seem to be overly picky today, but I also don't understand the use of "allow" in this context. The wife retains some sort of authority over your clothing choices?