The State of Black Tie: Your Observations

[gimpwiz]

Gents, I have been searching for some time now for some god/nice self tie bow ties.
both velvet and grosgrain are ok, not very interested in shantung or the plainer silk (no satin) ones.

night blue or black ... all pointers are welcome.

thanks in advance !

The usual suspects are:

- Kent Wang - adjustable
- Sam Hober - custom, yet reasonably affordable
- Le Noeud Papillon - much mentioned by Andy who, without putting words in his mouth, I read as loving them
- Ede and Ravenscroft

 

[hpreston]

Gents, I have been searching for some time now for some god/nice self tie bow ties.
both velvet and grosgrain are ok, not very interested in shantung or the plainer silk (no satin) ones.

night blue or black ... all pointers are welcome.

thanks in advance !

The usual suspects are:

- Kent Wang - adjustable
- Sam Hober - custom, yet reasonably affordable
- Le Noeud Papillon - much mentioned by Andy who, without putting words in his mouth, I read as loving them
- Ede and Ravenscroft

I’ll add
Paul Stuart
J Press
J Muser (https://jmueser.com/collections/ties)

 

[lordsuperb]

Gents, thanks for all the replies in my poorly worded quest for a relatively inexpensive pleated shirt. FWIW, I found a NWT drakes pique front shirt for my midnight tux on eBay. And was having a hard time finding a pleated shirt from reputable maker…. I’ll keep searching.




I went with a Belgian Shoes.

Evening • Belgian Shoes • New York, New York

belgianshoes.com

You have to call them. (No online ordering) And it took two rounds for me dial in my sizing. But they may have a show that fits you.

Ben Silver makes nice shirts!!!

 

[ericgereghty]

What an absolute catastrophe. God bless the dead is all I can say…fittingly the only bit of redeeming quality in this photo.
Though, who really cares? LA is a useless cesspool of trash, so this is rather in keeping with the geography, though Kenny wins a promotion for all his flair.

 

[Andy57]

The usual suspects are:

- Le Noeud Papillon - much mentioned by Andy who, without putting words in his mouth, I read as loving them

Well, I find Le Noed Papillon ties to be uniformly excellent.

Another option, especially if you are in the UK, is La Bowtique Bowties by Mickael Korausch.

 

[JJ Katz]

'Coop' just read someone write that the 1930s were the 'Golden Era' of CM and, also, that one shouldn't wear wing collars with black tie...

 

[Jazzthief]

'Coop' just read someone write that the 1930s were the 'Golden Era' of CM and, also, that one shouldn't wear wing collars with black tie...

View attachment 1891669

If I remember correctly, then up to the 1940s black-tie was often worn with white-tie elements - that are distinguished from black-tie elements. So, with a dark pointed lapel dinner jacket with a waistcoat you might have worn a winged collar shirt (with barrel cuffs and a marcella bib), mother of pearl studs and cufflinks, opera pumps, I think that sometimes even with a white bowtie. So, no pleated bibs with winged collars and cummerbunds etc. It makes sense, as well, as a pointed lapel waistcoated ensemble is directly derided from the full evening dress tailcoat. At least, so I recall.

 

[Mark from Plano]

'Coop' just read someone write that the 1930s were the 'Golden Era' of CM and, also, that one shouldn't wear wing collars with black tie...

View attachment 1891669

There are wing collars and there are “wing collars.” What GC is wearing here is a detachable collar formal shirt (used for white tie) where the collar is both formidably tall and starched to the consistency of plywood. If you’d like to source such a shirt and a collection of collars, which you then need to have specially cleaned and starched, then fine. I have and wear them occasionally.

If instead what you mean is an attached, short, limp wing-collared of the modern variety…well…you can do that as well I suppose. Personally, I’ll pass.

 

[Andy57]

Red accessories for an early Valentine's Day

 

[Nick Charles]

'Coop' just read someone write that the 1930s were the 'Golden Era' of CM and, also, that one shouldn't wear wing collars with black tie...

View attachment 1891669

Agree with Jazzthief (great name!) and Mark from Plano. Will only add that looking at the picture, am guessing this is early to mid-thirties and a viewing of the movies of this period show a lot of mixing of white tie and black tie elements. Basically, I think you have two things going on. BT was going through an evolutionary period which reflected the transitioning of the fashion world as a whole. Secondly, films in the Depression Era Thirties loved to focus on super-rich ladies dressed in over-the-top outfits and thus their male co-stars needed formal attire that could keep up. After WWII, formal outfits of leading ladies were much more down-to-earth and BT followed suit (pun intended) by defaulting to the more casual, relaxed look we see today.

Where will I will agree with "Coop" and disagree with many on this thread is that I think wing collars are next level BT when pulled off correctly and a great way to distinguish oneself in the crowd.

 

[Mark from Plano]

From Manton’s speech on wedding attire that I referenced a few pages back.

“The sharpest black tie outfit a man can wear is a single breasted peaked coat, a white vest (identical to the one worn with white tie), wing collar shirt (ditto) and black bow tie.
That's as close to white tie as you can get without renting tails.
But again we bump into the problem of the impracticality of the wing collar shirt (because, again, the attached collar versions sold in department stores are to be shunned).
So we're back to the turndown collar shirt, with either a pleated or a pique front-the latter being a bit more elegant.”

I will also say that well into the 1980s and perhaps much later Emily Post expressed essentially the same sentiments.

So the idea that this configuration died at the end of WWII is factually inaccurate. That it is rarely pulled off with aplomb, I would wholeheartedly agree.

 

[Cause Moe]

From Manton’s speech on wedding attire that I referenced a few pages back.



I will also say that well into the 1980s and perhaps much later Emily Post expressed essentially the same sentiments.

So the idea that this configuration died at the end of WWII is factually inaccurate. That it is rarely pulled off with aplomb, I would wholeheartedly agree.

I think a white waistcoat is very out of place with black tie*. I don't wear a wing collar with black tie, but for those who do, it's essential for the tie to be MTM, or at least not to have any buckle, button, or other visible length adjustment, which really detracts from the effect of the tie with a stand-up collar.

* I have to admit, I have never worn white tie, and I don't think I ever will unless I meet a woman who earns a Nobel Prize. Myself, I don't expect the king of Sweden to ever honor me with what I was needin'.

 

[Nick Charles]

From Manton’s speech on wedding attire that I referenced a few pages back.



I will also say that well into the 1980s and perhaps much later Emily Post expressed essentially the same sentiments.

So the idea that this configuration died at the end of WWII is factually inaccurate. That it is rarely pulled off with aplomb, I would wholeheartedly agree.

"...single breasted peaked coat, a white vest (identical to the one worn with white tie), wing collar shirt (ditto) and black bow tie."

Am straining my admittedly limited faculties to remember if I've ever seen someone wear an outfit meeting this description (specifically the white vest w/black bow tie). Do you or anyone reading this have a picture of someone wearing this configuration? Be interesting to see.

Secondly, you said you sometimes wear wing collars. Am curious, is there an ensemble they go best with? Also, when do you decide to wear them? Special reason or just because?

 

[Mark from Plano]

 

[Cause Moe]

Wearing it with the jacket open is even worse. That white triangle effect is eliminated.