The State of Black Tie: Your Observations

[BPL Esq]

Looking to purchase my first tuxedo. I attend a couple of fundraisers each fall/winter that are typically black tie optional. Would like thoughts on this option:

Hickey Freeman | MAHOGANY TMAHOGANY T | Nordstrom Rack

IMO, the high buttoning point and abbreviated lapels are bad. The color is too light, the contrasting lapels are tacky, the flap pockets are not ideal, and the jacket looks too short. For a first tuxedo I'd go with black or a true midnight navy with a lower buttoning point and correspondingly longer lapels (not a contrasting color), jetted pockets, etc.

 

[SJTM]

Thanks for the feedback. Could you clarify the lapel comment? I thought that all traditional tuxedos, black or midnight blue, had black fabric lapels. Is that not the case?

 

[BPL Esq]

Thanks for the feedback. Could you clarify the lapel comment? I thought that all traditional tuxedos, black or midnight blue, had black fabric lapels. Is that not the case?

Sure, and they typically feature satin or grosgrain facing, but black or midnight navy lapels on a black or midnight navy dinner jacket appear to be basically the same color but maybe with a slightly different texture or sheen. The tux you linked is a much lighter blue than typical, so the lapels are a contrasting color vs. a contrasting texture/sheen.

 

[sftiger]

Get a black tuxedo if it's your first.

Also for $700 (which is what that one seems to cost) you can get something NWT that is much, much nicer on eBay. Just try them on in store at Neiman Marcus or whatever high end stores you have access to, figure out your sizing, and go to eBay.

 

[SJTM]

Thanks for your feedback on this tuxedo. I actually ordered it and it has just arrived the other day. Given the limited times I will wear a tuxedo, I am unwilling to spend the amount necessary to get a bespoke tuxedo to fit my less than perfect frame. I have also had very mixed success buying "new to me" clothing online via ebay, poshmark etc. This is returnable, and I may choose to do so, but let me qualify my initial impressions vs the photo,

I am a 42s, and when I wear the jacket, the button stance is a bit lower that shown in the ad photo. This may just be a function of how a 42s fits my frame. The lowest point of the shirt exposure is just above the 4th stud. While not necessarily the benchmark for fit, photos of the "Skyfall" tuxedo appear to have an almost identical button stance, as does the BB 1818 option.

There is no question that the navy fabric is closer to a very dark navy suit and would not be confused with black in a well lit room (or in full daylight, but this is eveningwear after all). My guess this is really a suit pattern that HF used with some details to emulate a more contemporary "skyfall" type design inspiration.

From what I have read, HF's Mahogany line was intended as a higher quality suit line, will full canvassing and better quality fabrics. The hand of the wool is very nice and the cut complements my more mature frame. I have looked at the options available at my local BB and this is easily comparable (or better) in fit and finish to their 1818 options, which also suffer from the same detail limitations ( button stance and pocket details are both the same).

I am on the fence on this one. I do not want to spend for bespoke. If you think there might be good MTO options under $1,000, I would certainly consider that. I do appreciate your advice and your thoughtful attention to detail.

 

[Andy57]

Looking to purchase my first tuxedo. I attend a couple of fundraisers each fall/winter that are typically black tie optional. Would like thoughts on this option:

Hickey Freeman | MAHOGANY TMAHOGANY T | Nordstrom Rack

It's a decent, RTW tuxedo. And if you can get an example that fits you well, then so much the better. The buttoning point on the jacket looks quite high, which may be because the jacket is essentially a regular suit jacket with the lower button removed.

If you're willing to spend $700 on a black tie rig, you might also want to look at Suit Supply. I think they have examples in this price range.

And, please, do get a cummerbund to cover the waist of the trousers. And a bow tie to match the facing on the lapels, which I assume are satin.

 

[Faux Brummell]

If you go with the Suit Supply option that Andy mentioned, note that they also have a classic u-shaped waistcoat that looks pretty good.

 

[BPL Esq]

Thanks for your feedback on this tuxedo. I actually ordered it and it has just arrived the other day. Given the limited times I will wear a tuxedo, I am unwilling to spend the amount necessary to get a bespoke tuxedo to fit my less than perfect frame. I have also had very mixed success buying "new to me" clothing online via ebay, poshmark etc. This is returnable, and I may choose to do so, but let me qualify my initial impressions vs the photo,

I am a 42s, and when I wear the jacket, the button stance is a bit lower that shown in the ad photo. This may just be a function of how a 42s fits my frame. The lowest point of the shirt exposure is just above the 4th stud. While not necessarily the benchmark for fit, photos of the "Skyfall" tuxedo appear to have an almost identical button stance, as does the BB 1818 option.

There is no question that the navy fabric is closer to a very dark navy suit and would not be confused with black in a well lit room (or in full daylight, but this is eveningwear after all). My guess this is really a suit pattern that HF used with some details to emulate a more contemporary "skyfall" type design inspiration.

From what I have read, HF's Mahogany line was intended as a higher quality suit line, will full canvassing and better quality fabrics. The hand of the wool is very nice and the cut complements my more mature frame. I have looked at the options available at my local BB and this is easily comparable (or better) in fit and finish to their 1818 options, which also suffer from the same detail limitations ( button stance and pocket details are both the same).

I am on the fence on this one. I do not want to spend for bespoke. If you think there might be good MTO options under $1,000, I would certainly consider that. I do appreciate your advice and your thoughtful attention to detail.

I don't think anyone was trying to push you into bespoke. Honestly, I think that for the money you'd potentially be better off with the black wool Lazio or Washington ones from SuitSupply. Unfortunately, Brooks Brothers' offerings are shameful. For what it's worth, I don't think Bond's tuxedo in Skyfall looks good at all, and they've been putting him in trendy too-tight suits overall.

If this were for one occasion with flexible rules or a more casual crowd unlikely to adhere to the typical black tie dress code, I'd say just wear it then cut your losses and buy something better later. Since you're wearing this to fundraisers, etc., I assume you'd like to look more or less "correct." Unless you have a tight timeline, I'd return this one and look for something more classic.

 

[SJTM]

Thenks again for input. I am not wedded to this one (pun intended). I have read mixed reviews on the quality of the Suit Suppy suits. A few posts have recommended Oliver Wicks as a better MTM option. They actually offer a single button, peak lapel MTM option for $695. Any thoughts on this brand?

Also looked on Ebay at past sales. Needless to say, pretty hit or miss in my size.

And finally, called my local NM. They apparently have severely cut back their offerings at their suburban stores, so I will need to plan a visit to their in town store to see if they have nay brands / styles that will fit me. However, their options under $2,500 is very limited. Not ready for Tom Ford.

 

[sftiger]

And finally, called my local NM. They apparently have severely cut back their offerings at their suburban stores, so I will need to plan a visit to their in town store to see if they have nay brands / styles that will fit me. However, their options under $2,500 is very limited. Not ready for Tom Ford.

My suggestion to go to NM was just to get a sense of sizing/fit. I've bought all my tuxes off eBay for 75+% off retail. You can get NWT Isaia, Zegna, Brioni, etc. for around $700 (or less) there.

 

[Andy57]

And finally, called my local NM. They apparently have severely cut back their offerings at their suburban stores, so I will need to plan a visit to their in town store to see if they have nay brands / styles that will fit me. However, their options under $2,500 is very limited. Not ready for Tom Ford.

Under no circumstances purchase a Tom Ford anything. You can have the exact same thing or better made bespoke for half the price. Seriously.

 

[Andy57]

Formal Friday with cocktails. Specifically a French 75 for the lady and a Martini for me.

 

[lordsuperb]

Under no circumstances purchase a Tom Ford anything. You can have the exact same thing or better made bespoke for half the price. Seriously.

Tom Ford is the only RTW maker that fits me like a dream!

 

[Andy57]

Tom Ford is the only RTW maker that fits me like a dream!

As I know you have many items made specifically for you, I'm sure you understand my point that for the price of a Tom Ford jacket purchased off-the-rack, you could have one made for you and have enough cash left over to wear that jacket to take someone out to a nice dinner.

 

[driving glove]

I like a couple that are as generous with the size of their libations as his lapel width.