The Oxford-Shoe-Worn-Casually Appreciation Thread

[JFWR]

The western idea of "take head covering off" always confused me as a kid.

When going into a Hindu temple, it was drilled into me that wearing a head covering was out of respect.

How about a ball cap in a fine restaurant? Or a Borsalino fedora, if you'd wear one at all, same question.... why not?

I went to Catholic schools. Men and boys don't wear hats in church; well, priests sometimes do. When I was young women wore hats in church--some priests would not give little girls communion unless they had some kind of hat on. At school Masses nuns would use a bobby pin to fix a Kleenex or something to the hair of hatless girls to approximate a head covering. The female side of the convention is long gone, but men don't wear hats in church.

Of course, in the Jewish and other faiths, the men were some type of headgear during services. It's interesting that both practices, hatted or hatless, are signs of respect, isn't it?

Easter hats for women are still a thing at several Catholic churches I've been to.

Part of this also is a cultural thing. A lot of Catholic churches have skewed a lot more Latin and caribbean here in NY than they were previously (Irish and Italians). I don't think the ladies wearing hats in church thing was ever a big thing in either of those cultures, though I might be off.

 

[acapaca]

I mean, be honest. The origin of taking shoes off has to do with dirty shoes, muddy streets, etc. Getting your shoes dirty in this town would be an effort.

I've never lived any place where it was common -- or really, anything but shockingly rare -- for people to walk inside with muddy shoes.

 

[ValidusLA]

I've never lived any place where it was common -- or really, anything but shockingly rare -- for people to walk inside with muddy shoes.

Not sure if you're trying to misunderstand or what.

Muddy shoes don't exist in LA was my point.

I am not arguing for walking inside with muddy shoes.

I'm asking why:
If taking a hot off inside is fusty and antiquated, why is an expectation of taking shoes off inside not considered so (absent actually dirty shoes)?

 

[dieworkwear]

The limited number of people I hang out with include academics, researchers, farmers, and musicians. No one I hang out with cares if you wear a hat indoors and they may even find it strange if you abide by such rules. I recently went to a Catholic church to hear a sermon and took off my ballcap, but otherwise don't think about these things.

Agree that I take off my shoes when entering someone's home. Usually do that by default unless asked not to.

I think of etiquette as things such as tipping well, treating people kindly, etc. I don't think of it associated with dress unless attending some formal event.

 

[ValidusLA]

The limited number of people I hang out with include academics, researchers, farmers, and musicians. No one I hang out with cares if you wear a hat indoors and they may even find it strange if you abide by such rules. I recently went to a Catholic church to hear a sermon and took off my ballcap, but otherwise don't think about these things.

Agree that I take off my shoes when entering someone's home. Usually do that by default unless asked not to.

I think of etiquette as things such as tipping well, treating people kindly, etc. I don't think of it associated with dress unless attending some formal event.

If you go to a cocktail or Christmas party and enter a home with 100 people in it where everyone is wearing shoes, would you take off your shoes?

 

[dieworkwear]

If you go to a cocktail or Christmas party and enter a home with 100 people in it where everyone is wearing shoes, would you take off your shoes?

No.

 

[ValidusLA]

No.

Thanks. Add on question. If you were to host 50-100 people in your home, lets assume of mixed backgrounds and heritages, would you expect a large group like this to take off their shoes?

(I assume for a dinner or small gathering of 5-10 you would).

 

[dieworkwear]

Thanks. Add on question. If you were to host 50-100 people in your home, lets assume of mixed backgrounds and heritages, would you expect a large group like this to take off their shoes?

(I assume for a dinner or small gathering of 5-10 you would).

I would never allow 100 people in my home. When I've hosted small parties, it's less than fifty. Don't know the number, but maybe around 10 or 15. I ask people to take off their shoes.

 

[Mercurio]

How about a ball cap in a fine restaurant? Or a Borsalino fedora, if you'd wear one at all, same question.... why not?

I went to Catholic schools. (...) The female side of the convention is long gone, but men don't wear hats in church.

Maybe there isn't a rationale in these situations, it's more a matter of respect for other people's traditions and beliefs. If you know that it would bother other people or your restaurant hosts, why would you do it?

On the other hand, If you attended a Catholic school, you should know that boys and men have to go to church uncovered and girls and women, with some sort of covering, not necessarily a hat, most of the time it would be a veil. The reasons for this come from the uses and traditions since the beginning of the Church, and they will remain as they are, even if you are not comfortable with them. Priest habits and other ornaments equally follow quite strict rules, it isn't a fashion or tendencies matter.

You can find more about it in the next link:

https://www.stacharlotte.com/media/1/Veils_by_Lily_Printable_Common_Questions_About_Veiling_at_Mass.pdf

I mean, be honest. The origin of taking shoes off has to do with dirty shoes, muddy streets, etc. Getting your shoes dirty in this town would be an effort.

In reality there is a lot of dirt and dust on the streets, side walks, offices and even the interior of your car, even though you don't see it. Even though I don't do it myself, I understand the advantages of such a practice.

Why do you use a vacuum cleaner at home? Probably to remove all dust that floats in the polluted air of any city.

 

[ValidusLA]

I would never allow 100 people in my home. When I've hosted small parties, it's less than fifty. Don't know the number, but maybe around 10 or 15. I ask people to take off their shoes.

Fair. I guess I grew up going to 100+ person parties around holidays at houses where no one took shoes off. And none of these homes ever looked dirty, before, during, or after.

In reality there is a lot of dirt and dust on the streets, side walks, offices and even the interior of your car, even though you don't see it. Even though I don't do it myself, I understand the advantages of such a practice.

Why do you use a vacuum cleaner at home? Probably to remove all dust that floats in the polluted air of any city.

Lots of dust on your pants then too. And probably your jacket or shirt from being seated in an office or car. If we go to invisible dust and pollution then we should all immediatly change the minute we walk in the door.

 

[dieworkwear]

Fair. I guess I grew up going to 100+ person parties around holidays at houses where no one took shoes off. And none of these homes ever looked dirty, before, during, or after.

One of my closest friends grew up train hopping and works on a weed farm. If I took off my hat indoors and said I was doing it as a sign of respect, he would probably mock me for the rest of my life.

Another friend grew up as a Lo Head and now runs a food company and goes hunting on the weekends. He dresses head to toe in Polo and often wears ballcaps. He's probably the most social guy I know and hosts holiday parties every year at his house. I'm sure I can find photos of him wearing ballcaps in his own home at holiday parties.

Neither of these guys have a "shoes off policy," frankly because they're white Americans. Among the people I've grown up around, "no shoes" seems to be a rule among immigrants and Asians.

Judge John Hodgman had an episode about this a while ago. I'm always surprised by the "shoes inside the home" practice, but again, if it's some else's home, they can do whatever they want.

Episode 196: Mi Casa Es Shoeless Casa | Maximum Fun

Julia brings the case against her husband Sean. Sean likes to keep the house neat and clean. He insists that all guests remove their shoes before entering the house. Julia says the guest’s comfort is…

maximumfun.org

 

[Mercurio]

Lots of dust on your pants then too. And probably your jacket or shirt from being seated in an office or car. If we go to invisible dust and pollution then we should all immediatly change the minute we walk in the door.

Probably it won't do any harm to most of us in the short term, as our bodies are accustomed and have defences to it, but ask people who suffer from different types of allergies, what they think about.

 

[too_poor_for_this]

Lots of dust on your pants then too. And probably your jacket or shirt from being seated in an office or car. If we go to invisible dust and pollution then we should all immediatly change the minute we walk in the door.

When I was a wee lad, I always thought in the movies where people walked into their homes with shoes on, and immediately hopped onto their bed (without changing clothes, sometimes without taking off their shoes?) was just a peculiarity for movies to make it easier to film or something --- had no idea this was a thing real people did! You could say I was sheltered in my little ethnic enclave with respect to these types of things.

So it actually is pretty habitual for me to now not even sit on the couch with my "outside clothes" (I did/do live in a place with 4 seasons though so there's that too).

 

[emptym]

@Mercurio, women do not need to wear head coverings in church, as the link you posted confirms. Those who would like to require women to wear veils are like the Pharisees in building hedges around the law. And as @Oswald Cornelius mentioned, some men (namely bishops, cardinals) attend with a head covering.

@ValidusLA, the streets and buildings of LA are still more or less dirty, despite the weather and pavement, from auto fluids to animal waste (bird droppings, dog poop/pee, even human waste, which I'm reminded of every time I stand at a urinal). I'll bet the homes w/ 100+ person parties were well cleaned afterwards, probably by professionals. When we come home, my wife makes us change clothes pretty much immediately as well.

 

[dieworkwear]

@ValidusLA, the streets and buildings of LA are more or less dirty, despite the weather and pavement, from auto fluids to animal waste (bird droppings, dog poop/pee, even human waste, which I'm reminded of every time I stand at a urinal).

Honestly, this is the thing that gets me. I don't know how anyone can step inside a public men's restroom and not have a "shoes off policy" in the home.

I've found that this is a very white American practice, and only among some white Americans. When I lived in Russia, people there are insanely clean and everyone takes off their shoes. I have noticed the same when stepping into homes of immigrants from Africa, Asia, and Latin America.

Been a while since I listened to that Judge John Hodgeman episode, but I remember when I listened to it many years ago, I kept thinking "how can anyone not take their shoes off inside the home!?" But again, someone's abode is their own private business.