The Official Wine Thread

[Piobaire]

Originally Posted by gomestar

as much as I tend to dislike ratings, Burgundy is one of the wines that I tend to rely on for ratings. I am not yet baller enough to gamble at $80. Allan Meadows is also very good critic, and seek out Leroy.

Part of it is also principle, i.e., waste not, want not, and another part is why chance $80 when I know $45 will buy me a sure winner?

I'm going to do some Burgundy this year though. I just ordered a couple futures bottles of CdP too. I'm going a bit more French this year. Maybe a DRC?

 

[pejsek]

Burgundy really isn't the minefield it once was. With the widespread adoption of modern equipment, vigilance about chapitalization, and the end of the most egregious negociant frauds, buying Burgundy is no longer akin to sailing on the money-reward scale. Most of the generic Bourgogne Rouge out there is genuinely good and does actually give a true sense of how magical Burgundy can be.

My advice to budding Burgundy drinkers is always the same. Buy Matt Kramer's book on Burgundy and some plain old Bourgogne Rouge (Faiveley, Drouhin, and Jadot can be found in almost every supermarket for $15 or less). Once you've got your sea legs try a commune-level or premier cru wine. Get to know the regions you like before you drop the big bucks on a grand cru.

There is a lot of variety in Burgundy. Yes, something like Santenay will give you a sense of the farm (in the same excellent way Maitre Parfumeur fragrances can give you glimpses of the more elemental body secretions). The rustic element in a Santenay premier cru can make for a very sophisticated and satisfying wine. But you will also find wines that are as refined (if not more so) as anything else you can drink. We drank a 1988 Mazis Chambertin the other night--not even close to being done and perhaps my new poster child for the concept of refinement in wine. Just think of it this way: Burgundy is its own universe in a way no other wine region is.

 

[Manton]

Originally Posted by Piobaire

I know you're probably not on a search for a New World Pinot, but given your write up, I'd be interested in what you have to say about Peay or a powerful Oregon Pinot. They are far different from your usual Cali fruit bomb.
Tell me what to try, and I will try it (assuming I can get iit here).

Originally Posted by gomestar

seek out Leroy.
This is an excellent suggestion. Leroy is the #2 producer (after DRC, of which the owner of Leroy is herself a part-owner). Unlike DRC, which only makes Grand Crus (or used to, though I recently spotted some 1er Cru with a DRC label; not sure what that is), Leroy makes wine at every level down to the village. They are expensive for village wines, but still much, much less than a great producer charges for Grand or 1er Cru. Leroy has a definite "house" style like DRC that comes through in every bottling.

Basically, if you try that and you don't like it, then you don't like Burgundy, and should forget about it and save your money.

 

[gomestar]

Originally Posted by Piobaire

Part of it is also principle, i.e., waste not, want not, and another part is why chance $80 when I know $45 will buy me a sure winner?

you could have ordered a Honda Pilot ... a sure winner by any stretch of the imagination. But you went with a MB. Historically MBs have less reliability and far more expensive maintainence costs. But you didn't and I don't think you have any regrets. Both big SUV's, but both are very different and, frankly, uncomparable. I think it's not too extreme to compare cali vs. burg this way.

 

[gomestar]

Originally Posted by Manton

Leroy makes wine at every level down to the village..

down to AOC bourgogne.

 

[audiophilia]

Originally Posted by pejsek

Burgundy really isn't the minefield it once was. With the widespread adoption of modern equipment, vigilance about chapitalization, and the end of the most egregious negociant frauds, buying Burgundy is no longer akin to sailing on the money-reward scale. Most of the generic Bourgogne Rouge out there is genuinely good and does actually give a true sense of how magical Burgundy can be.

My advice to budding Burgundy drinkers is always the same. Buy Matt Kramer's book on Burgundy and some plain old Bourgogne Rouge (Faiveley, Drouhin, and Jadot can be found in almost every supermarket for $15 or less). Once you've got your sea legs try a commune-level or premier cru wine. Get to know the regions you like before you drop the big bucks on a grand cru.

There is a lot of variety in Burgundy. Yes, something like Santenay will give you a sense of the farm (in the same excellent way Maitre Parfumeur fragrances can give you glimpses of the more elemental body secretions). The rustic element in a Santenay premier cru can make for a very sophisticated and satisfying wine. But you will also find wines that are as refined (if not more so) as anything else you can drink. We drank a 1988 Mazis Chambertin the other night--not even close to being done and perhaps my new poster child for the concept of refinement in wine. Just think of it this way: Burgundy is its own universe in a way no other wine region is.

Sounds like excellent, logical advice. Will begin at the beginning you suggest.

 

[pejsek]

It's fully possible to like Burgundy without liking Leroy wines. Heck, you could even like Burgundy without liking DRC. The only way you will know if you like Burgundy is by drinking a bunch of different kinds. Everyone has a house style, but one of the great things about Burgundy is that in addition to its general loveliness you can really actually taste the various appelations and vineyards. Too heavy a hand obviously obscures this.

 

[Mark from Plano]

Originally Posted by Manton

The Muscat was a strange little Australian dessert wine, non-vintage but apparently celllared for 5+ years. Tasted a lot like a very old (30+) vintage port. Really excellent.
I'm a big fan of this Buller Muscat. Pound for pound I put it up against a lot of tawnies at something like 1/3rd or less of their price. I'm a fan. I have three bottles in my closet right now. I never cellar them though. They never seem to last that long.

 

[Piobaire]

Manton, I'll come up with a few New Worlds for you to try and find if you come up with a few Leroy for me to try and find. I'll have a few names for you tonight or tomorrow, including vintage.

 

[Manton]

Originally Posted by gomestar

down to AOC bourgogne.

Holy cow, you're right!

Other targets of opportunity, all for less than $50, most under $40, and one under $30:

The '04 is risky, but it was a steal for a 1er Cru. If it is good, I will go back and get the rest. The most I am hoping for is a nice, early maturing Burg. The '02 and the '05, OTH, will be great, I expect.

The '95 should be good, was also a steal. Definitely should be ready now.

 

[itsstillmatt]

^^

The De Villaine Burgundies, generally "second rate" vineyards at best, are a great place to start with Burgs. Aubert de Villaine is the co-owner of DRC, Leroy's ex partner, and the wines he makes from his own vineyards are both inexpensive and wonderfully done.

 

[edmorel]

Making steak frites at home for dinner, had these lying around, which should I drink?

The Jayson is Californian

This is one of those Barbera's or Tuscan or something

 

[kwilkinson]

Originally Posted by iammatt

^^

The De Villaine Burgundies, generally "second rate" vineyards at best, are a great place to start with Burgs. Aubert de Villaine is the co-owner of DRC, Leroy's ex partner, and the wines he makes from his own vineyards are both inexpensive and wonderfully done.

For a self-proclaimed "non-wine guy" you sure know your way around a wine list.

 

[Piobaire]

Originally Posted by iammatt

^^

The De Villaine Burgundies, generally "second rate" vineyards at best, are a great place to start with Burgs. Aubert de Villaine is the co-owner of DRC, Leroy's ex partner, and the wines he makes from his own vineyards are both inexpensive and wonderfully done.

Matt, can you send me a few klwines links I should look at? I got two of the 2007 Domaine du Vieux Telegraphe "La Crau" Châteauneuf-du-Pape last week.

Manton, try a Peay Scallop Shelf PN or their Les Titans Syrah. The older the better, of course.

As to Oregon, first try Domaine Drouhin Pinot Noir. She grew up in Beaune. Also, Beaux Freres, Upper Terrace or Beaux Freres, Beaux Freres.

 

[kwilkinson]

Originally Posted by Piobaire

As to Oregon, first try Domaine Drouhin Pinot Noir. She grew up in Beaune. Also, Beaux Freres, Upper Terrace or Beaux Freres, Beaux Freres.

As in Joseph Drouhin?