The CM Graveyard: First Sartoria Partenopea... next J. Crew?

[aristoi bcn]

It did not and they're now using another maker.

Partenopea is dead for real and even Mauro Blasi (son of Angelo, former owner of SP) under his new eponymous brand isn't doing too good, at all.

Why do you think Mauro Blasi is doing it wrong?

I follow him on tumblr and I don't like most of their outfits but isn't the craftmanship there?

(I don't know, I'm just curious)

 

[SeamasterLux]

Why do you think Mauro Blasi is doing it wrong?

I follow him on tumblr and I don't like most of their outfits but isn't the craftmanship there?

(I don't know, I'm just curious)

I don't say he's doing it wrong but I'm saying that the brand is already in financial trouble. He never was a great general manager to start with I believe. Would be better for him to have his name bought by a large corporation for once (and I'm not usually thinking this)

 

[Caustic Man]

Here is something from earlier in the year that I remembered seeing and dug up again. The gist of the story, when it comes to department stores and discounts, is that brands overlap quite a lot at traditional brick and mortar retailers and they have no way to stand out except to discount their products. Makes sense I suppose. If Macy's, Nordstrom, and Dillards are all selling the same products then even if I do want to try things on before I buy why would I go to one over the other? The result, according to the piece, is that shoppers get addicted to discounts and become hesitant to buy from anyone at full price. If you are the only store to have a particular thing, and it's fairly exclusive to you, people will pay full retail. If not, they will look for deals.

http://fortune.com/2017/02/21/department-stores-decline-charts/

 

[Caustic Man]

Same. When I do buy OTR items they are usually vintage Ivy type pieces that haven't been sold at retail for several decades (it's just a niche interest). I was thinking about that fact the other day and wondering to myself whether that is a symptom of a taste for higher quality items than are usually available at retail giants or perhaps a symptom of the failing of department stores to interest me in this day and age. Maybe both I guess.

Then again, even specialty retailers aren't terribly interesting to me. I'll walk into Suit Supply every now and then because their displays can be interesting and the retail space is bright and enjoyable if you want to handle products. I still rarely buy anything though.

 

[clee1982]

In my case, it's not that high quality RTW are not available (I'm in NYC after all), it's just I'm not paying retail for it...

 

[akoustas]

What most of the retailers have been unable to do is differentiate themselves in any way from an online competitor. The pricing will be difficult given the associated costs of a brick and mortar location, so the obvious answer is that store design and service should be above and beyond to fill that gap. There is precious little investment in staff training, while wages are poor. Alternatively aggressive commission structures result in sales staff being pushy, which most people would rather just avoid. Store design is often times lamentable, with little effort put into differentiate styles and products. The reason Nordstrom stands alone amongst it's competitors is that the service is top notch. The staff is well trained and knowledgeable and provide some value added to the experience. Most of all they are friendly and approachable, something that is a rarity in most mid-luxury to luxury retailers. Who would have thought someone not treating you like garbage would actually be good for business?

Now there are an incredible amount of other factors at play, but I do have to believe that the continued success of large scale Japanese clothing retailers has something to do with superior service. You go into a store there and the difference is night and day.

 

[IChen]

What most of the retailers have been unable to do is differentiate themselves in any way from an online competitor. The pricing will be difficult given the associated costs of a brick and mortar location, so the obvious answer is that store design and service should be above and beyond to fill that gap. There is precious little investment in staff training, while wages are poor. Alternatively aggressive commission structures result in sales staff being pushy, which most people would rather just avoid. Store design is often times lamentable, with little effort put into differentiate styles and products. The reason Nordstrom stands alone amongst it's competitors is that the service is top notch. The staff is well trained and knowledgeable and provide some value added to the experience. Most of all they are friendly and approachable, something that is a rarity in most mid-luxury to luxury retailers. Who would have thought someone not treating you like garbage would actually be good for business?

Now there are an incredible amount of other factors at play, but I do have to believe that the continued success of large scale Japanese clothing retailers has something to do with superior service. You go into a store there and the difference is night and day.

No. The reason Nordstrom stands out is because they accept returns, and they're willing to bend over. And also, they provide product that are more affordable to most people. Staff isn't really anything exciting nor special, it may be special at the store you frequent, but they're not any different really from Neimans employees for example.

Ever hear of Nordstroms branches taking back thousands (10k+) in returns sometimes on a day? It happens.

There's really no way to differentiate besides a customer that isn't too conscious, in a way of saying, about how much they spend. After a bit of waiting or searching online, you can always get the product at a cheaper price, or at least most products.

 

[IChen]

What I do not understand is how the landlords can keep raising the rent
and replace one retail tenant with another who has the means to pay.
I am a native New Yorker who grew up shopping at often higher
end retailers. I was in Manhattan for two weeks in June 2015. What
struck me was the lack of retail vacancies in the more exclusive shopping
districts: upper Madison Ave, Fifth Ave, SoHo,etc. compared to the Union
Square area of San Francisco. In San Francisco Ralph Lauren pulls
out as a result of rent and the space is still vacant two (or is it three)
years later. I know that SF is not New York, but in New York retail landlords
always seem to have takers. Not so here.

It is very strange. Of course you may want to start the price lower to recruit new tenants but wouldn't you want to work with your current tenants to keep them there? Like stores have got to complain when they see a black store across the way....But NY is prestige.

 

[akoustas]

No. The reason Nordstrom stands out is because they accept returns, and they're willing to bend over. And also, they provide product that are more affordable to most people. Staff isn't really anything exciting nor special, it may be special at the store you frequent, but they're not any different really from Neimans employees for example.

Ever hear of Nordstroms branches taking back thousands (10k+) in returns sometimes on a day? It happens.

There's really no way to differentiate besides a customer that isn't too conscious, in a way of saying, about how much they spend. After a bit of waiting or searching online, you can always get the product at a cheaper price, or at least most products.

Yes....that's exactly what I'm talking about. Instead of having to go through the hassle of returning everything online and perhaps paying a fee, they just take things back and bend over backwards to make sure you're happy. That is a distinct advantage over the online experience that adds value.

Why on Earth would I want to deal with the Niemen Marcus Returns department if it can be avoided?

 

[IChen]

Yes....that's exactly what I'm talking about. Instead of having to go through the hassle of returning everything online and perhaps paying a fee, they just take things back and bend over backwards to make sure you're happy. That is a distinct advantage over the online experience that adds value.

Well sure but then you add in paying for associates, paying rent, overheads, and also doing windows and stuff, that value becomes a lot lower. Like it's a lot harder to return online 1 year old product with no receipt compared to in-store.

It is a distinct advantage but really...how can you profit like this..

 

[SartodiNapoli]

I used to do shirts for Sartoria Partenopea, yet my patterns and things are locked judicially inside the building after 2 years.

Several members visited me there, was closed from one day to the other...

I am unlucky...

 

[SartodiNapoli]

Basically all of traditional retail is on the verge of going bust due to the rise of over proliferation of product, online shopping and fast fashion. Nearly all major department stores (aside from Nordstrom) are reporting record low numbers. Saks fired 2000 employees last week. It's rumoured Nieman Marcus will go bankrupt within the year and Bergdorf Goodmen men's may close.

The side effect of the crisis? No one buys suits on USA nowadays?

Most of the Neapolitan garments are made for the US market. I hope the situation recovers.

 

[akoustas]

Well sure but then you add in paying for associates, paying rent, overheads, and also doing windows and stuff, that value becomes a lot lower. Like it's a lot harder to return online 1 year old product with no receipt compared to in-store.

It is a distinct advantage but really...how can you profit like this..

Well they seem to be doing better than everyone else so I guess they figured it out didn't they? "Total revenue was up 3%, to $4.32 billion, but that was slightly less than the 4% growth rate that most investors had expected to see. Net income of $201 million was up 12% from year-ago levels, and the resulting $1.15 per share in earnings matched the consensus forecast."

That's my whole point. Out of everyone they're the only ones surviving because somehow they've managed to make it work. I would wager its on the sales experience, which includes the return policy.

 

[LA Guy]

What most of the retailers have been unable to do is differentiate themselves in any way from an online competitor. The pricing will be difficult given the associated costs of a brick and mortar location, so the obvious answer is that store design and service should be above and beyond to fill that gap. There is precious little investment in staff training, while wages are poor. Alternatively aggressive commission structures result in sales staff being pushy, which most people would rather just avoid. Store design is often times lamentable, with little effort put into differentiate styles and products. The reason Nordstrom stands alone amongst it's competitors is that the service is top notch. The staff is well trained and knowledgeable and provide some value added to the experience. Most of all they are friendly and approachable, something that is a rarity in most mid-luxury to luxury retailers. Who would have thought someone not treating you like garbage would actually be good for business?

Now there are an incredible amount of other factors at play, but I do have to believe that the continued success of large scale Japanese clothing retailers has something to do with superior service. You go into a store there and the difference is night and day.

The reason that Nordstrom is doing okay is that they invested early and often in their online channels and discount. Nordstrom Rack is doing huge business, and the experience online is terrific. For women, especially, it's a great place to stock up on basics and is also a good place to treasure hunt.

As @IChen already put it, their return policies are legendarily customer friendly. You probably have heard at least one of them. There are many, from the guy who returned a lawnmower (Nordstrom, unsurprisingly, does not sell lawnmowers), and of the woman who returned goods bought at a competitor. I personally know of women who have returned shoes after a year of hard wear because a sole cracked, and been cheerfully told "Oh, that should not happen", and given a full refund AND a discount to be used at the customer's leisure.

I don't have this relationship with Nordstrom, but I do with Zappos. Over 10 years ago, I had a single, faulty, pair of shoes. The first time I wore the sneakers, the sole literally tore off as I walked home. Into the box, I sent them back, and they had a seamless, judgement free, return form. iirc, I even got a personal "mea culpa". And now I have the VIP service, which means that I get free overnight delivery. This means that I spend money with them whenever I need something fast, or where I want to be able to purchase without hassle, and return if need be. I buy my kids shoes there, athletic shoes for me, and more recently, outdoor gear. All full price. I will comparison shop, but if the price isn't significantly different (for me, I think that the cut off is about 10-15%), Zappos, here I come. This means that competitors have to sacrifice that much more of their margin, to get my business. Incidentally, my return rate is well under 5%. I've returned a few pairs of kids shoes that do not fit, and a single pair that looked like a well abused pair of returns. And in certain cases, with their 365 return period, I've often left it off long enough that the shoes came in useful after all. That's over about 11 years.

Nordstrom's service is also, as you stated, very good. It's been seen, for as long as I've known it, to be the "high end" store that is not snooty (contrast that to the Julia Roberts Pretty Woman general perception of high end stores.) I know a number of harder to dress women who are very loyal to their SA, who do old school clienteling extremely well. You can see that in the advertising materials as well. The overall feel of the ads are cheerful and accessible, down to the styling of the products and choice of models.

 

[IChen]

Yeah there are some clients super loyal as well as some to like Bloomingdales too. Windows are nicely done and fun in general. I do agree that their online is very well done. And I like it more than like Bloomies. For something pricier I'd rather see it in store but still.

Their returns are just....jeez. Too customer friendly? A Nordstrom here in Mass, a lady returned about 30 grand plus worth of merch with no tags or receipts and worn. I believe in a span of 2 days?