The Bespoke Shoes Thread

[discostu004]

I have these coming my way in a few weeks:

 

[bengal-stripe]

I insist that, were the shoes RTW, I wouldn’t bat an eye lid. But for MTO’s which are not quite bespoke but still somewhat personalized, the resulting fit should be far better than this. This is just unacceptable and poor for an MTO in my humble opinion.

The shoe is Made-to-order, not bespoke. Yes, just like Bestetti, many shoemaking firms will make small adjustments to their stock lasts to improve the fit. But those adjustments will be of the add-on variety, certain sections of the last will get enlarged to cater for bunions, a high instep or wherever additional space is needed. Nobody will reduce, rasp-off, a stock last as the last would be ruined for stock. They would explain the customer that extensive alterations would require a fully bespoke last and a bespoke shoe at considerably higher cost.

The point is, the customer was happy with the shoes and had no complaints. Now, more than three and a half years and some fifty pages later in the thread, you pick it up again and tell the buyer: "you've got yourself a dud!".

 

[Alan Bee]

The shoe is Made-to-order, not bespoke. Yes, just like Bestetti, many shoemaking firms will make small adjustments to their stock lasts to improve the fit. But those adjustments will be of the add-on variety, certain sections of the last will get enlarged to cater for bunions, a high instep or wherever additional space is needed. Nobody will reduce, rasp-off, a stock last as the last would be ruined for stock. They would explain the customer that extensive alterations would require a fully bespoke last and a bespoke shoe at considerably higher cost.

The point is, the customer was happy with the shoes and had no complaints. Now, more than three and a half years and some fifty pages later in the thread, you pick it up again and tell the buyer: "you've got yourself a dud!".

@bengal-stripe

So would it be more polite or civil if I rather jumped on the bandwagon and give the OP hi-fives just to delight him despite apparent flaws which have been clearly described?

I’m not here to be a cheerleader. I’m here to learn and part of it is pointing out there things could be done better. I take no pride or joy in schadenfreude. This thread is no more than an attempt at enlightened debate in footwear.

Alan Bee

 

[dieworkwear]

I’m not here to be a cheerleader. I’m here to learn and part of it is pointing out there things could be done better. I take no pride or joy in schadenfreude. This thread is no more than an attempt at enlightened debate in footwear.

I think you're taking this a little too seriously

 

[Alan Bee]

I think you're taking this a little too seriously

@dieworkwear

Oh really? More seriously than your contribution on the “best man in the room thread”?

Oh common now. We are just having an enlightened debate and I hope to learn on this thread as much as I’ve learned from your contribution to the other thread.

I follow your blog and have learned quite a bit on footwear from you. Perhaps you could contribute to this debate on fit (or lack thereof)

Alan Bee

 

[dieworkwear]

@dieworkwear

Oh really? More seriously than your contribution on the “best man in the room thread”?

Oh common now. We are just having an enlightened debate and I hope to learn on this thread as much as I’ve learned from your contribution to the other thread.

Alan Bee

Touche.

Maybe it's a language issue, but all this "good sir," "your humble servant," "enlightened shoe discussion," and whatnot in the last couple of pages is a little too "tip of the hat" for me.

 

[Alan Bee]

Touche.

Maybe it's a language issue, but all this "good sir," "your humble servant," "enlightened shoe discussion," and whatnot in the last couple of pages is a little too "tip of the hat" for me.

I always thought you yourself as quite the man of letters. I see little or no harm in politeness even if it appears unintentionally affected.

Shall we return to shoes good sir?

Alan Bee

 

[dieworkwear]

I always thought you yourself are quite the man of letters. I see little or no harm in politeness even if it appears unintentionally affected.

Shall we return to shoes good sir?

Alan Bee

Certainly, my good man!

 

[ntempleman]

One’s fear is that retirement to the drawing room may be required in order to convalesce in response to such excitement, good fellows

 

[DWFII]

Hey, it isn't calculus...it's our native language, for God's sake! If we can't use it properly and even have a bit of semi-serious fun with it, why not go back to chest thumping and ground pounding? For some people that's all that's necessary to communicate everything they want to say, anyway.

And with all due respect, if it's not serious why take umbrage esp. if you've never fit a foot yourself and are just expressing a personal opinion about someone else's opinion? Why have a forum at all? At one point, it's just clishmaclaver, as who should say.

I, personally, would be disappointed if the "chat-room" advocates and the strut-noddies gain even more near-as-nevermind ascendancy than they already have.

 

[dieworkwear]

Actually, as an Asian, calculus is my native language.

 

[ntempleman]

The pipes and wrinkles in the forepart may be a bit excessive but it is hard to tell with the foot in a relaxed position. Some feet more or less collapse upon themselves when they are not bearing weight. And the leather could also have something to do with it.

But that said, while pipes and wrinkles (creases, IOW) are normal, as a maker I would be looking for a mistake in fit if a pair of my shoes exhibited that degree of creasing. A well fit shoe will be form-fitting--snug, with no "air pockets" over or around any part of the foot except the toe stiffener area. Ideally, when a thumb is drawn across the surface of a weight bearing shoe, it should not be possible to chase pipes ahead of the thumb.

I personally prefer a closer fit over the joint too, but sometimes the client doesn’t so you have to go with their feedback. This is MTO though, the last might not have even been touched so I don’t see it being too bad from the photo. Certainly not if the wearer is happy. Bestetti shoes that I’ve seen are always quite stylised, with very little toe spring. Looks good for the photos but with a little wear and flexing of the sole, these sorts of wrinkles can appear even if the measures were spot on for the first wear

 

[DWFII]

Actually, as an Asian, calculus is my native language.

I'd have no problem with you interjecting or signing off with formulae relating to the Higgs boson or Euler's equation or...anything you want. Might be a way to forestall discussion.

 

[dieworkwear]

I'd have no problem with you interjecting or signing off with formulae relating to the Higgs boson or Euler's equation or...anything you want. Might be a way to forestall discussion.

You know I speak calculus cause everything I say is derivative.

Spoiler

(ok sorry last one)

 

[DWFII]

I personally prefer a closer fit over the joint too, but sometimes the client doesn’t so you have to go with their feedback. This is MTO though, the last might not have even been touched so I don’t see it being too bad from the photo. Certainly not if the wearer is happy. Bestetti shoes that I’ve seen are always quite stylised, with very little toe spring. Looks good for the photos but with a little wear and flexing of the sole, these sorts of wrinkles can appear even if the measures were spot on for the first wear

You're absolutely correct.

But that's the challenge that we, as makers, face. Personally (and I try to bring this into these discussions), I think the only way to educate our customers is to separate, even if only in our own minds, the subjective from the objective.

I can appreciate that the customer likes a loose fit...I won't second guess them, and once I've said my piece I'll readily accommodate their wishes. But at the same time I have to be honest and point out the drawbacks and just the fact that, in my professional opinion, it's not a good fit and that almost no one profits from a loose fit.

I don't care...won't reference...who the maker is. Nor do I feel compelled to chide the customer for his preferences. But I'm not going to deny objective reality, either.