Sustainable Menswear?

[dieworkwear]

Quick follow up on the subject of Mongolian desertification. This past Sunday the country was engulfed in a massive dust storm that killed about a dozen people, collapsed more than a hundred homes and left 1.6 million livestock either dead or lost to their herders, no doubt including lots of cashmere goats. These dust storms grow worse each spring.

This was the view from my apartment. Still shaking sand from my hair.

View attachment 1575313

Disturbing. This was the view from my home after the California wildfires. Your photo kind of reminds me of that.

This photo was taken at 10am:

 

[Badenoch]

I'm reading a couple of really interesting books on this exact subject right now.

"Let My People Go Surfing: The Education of a Reluctant Businessman" by Yvon Chouinard about Patagonia's business culture and outlook on sustainability in clothing. One of the things that he mentions specifically in his book is that the most versatile and classic pieces Patagonia makes have always sold the best. He also has some tips including line drying, not ironing more than you have to, and buying second hand as much as possible, etc.

I just bought "Ten Garments Every Man Should Own: A Practical Guide to Building a Permanent Wardrobe" by Pedro Mendes which specifically deals with this subject in the context of classic menswear.

And finally I'm reading "The Death of a Grown-Up: How America's Arrested Development is Bringing Down Western Society" which doesn't deal specifically with clothing but does address some of the attitudes that lead to fast fashion and poor sustainability.

All great stuff and fascinating to think about!

I am very outdoorsy and have been interested in sustainability in clothing so it's interesting to think about in terms of classic menswear. Pedro makes a case that classic menswear may actually hold the best chance of being sustainable due to its timelessness and production practices (in some cases).

It's also interesting that the North Face recently made news for taking a stand and canceling the order of an oil corporation to protest their business practices only to be called out by that company for the fact that most of their product line is made from products of the oil and gas industry (nylon, polyester, etc.).

There is such a dichotomy between the outdoorsy subculture and the classic menswear culture. Being part of both sometimes makes me feel caught between worlds. The "rugged" style of "outdoorsy" brands is often purposefully designed to set itself apart from "classic" design of menswear. But rugged doesn't work in all cultural contexts and let's face it, hiking pants are rarely flattering off the trail.

But my opinion is that in order to beat this problem we've got to take Yvon's approach and design and wear well-made responsibly sourced clothing from sustainable fabrics with performance properties that fit all manner of circumstances, active or otherwise. Compartmentalizing our wardrobes just adds to the problem. Buy less, buy better.

As a side note, that's REALLY hard to do when you're 6'4" like me!

As a final note, it's important to consider the implications of shipping as well in the internet age. More online shopping (and returns!) means more carbon production. So it's not just how it's made and what it's made of but how it gets to you. I'm keenly aware of that given that my size is rarely carried in brick and mortar stores.

 

[dieworkwear]

Pedro makes a case that classic menswear may actually hold the best chance of being sustainable due to its timelessness and production practices (in some cases).

I haven't read his book, but a friend of mine is reviewing it for a site. I'm eager to read his review.

Taking just what you wrote above, however, I've found this to be not true in my case. Well, it's kind of true and kind of not true.

I think it's true that classic men's style is more canonical and slower moving. Classic men's style is also not just a singular look, but a collection of looks that have become canonical -- so you have 1930s tailoring, 60s Ivy, 30s through 60s American workwear, etc. Some of these things are very pegged to certain periods and will often come off as cosplay if worn today, but can be updated in small ways to make them look relevant. I think Bruce Boyer has a much more "classic" style than some other men, and it says something that his look has remained consistent over the course of ... I don't even know at this point. Fifty plus years?

But I've also found that many men who just got into clothing used the idea of "classic" to substitute for their own personal view and taste. Many tried to shoehorn classic wardrobes into thier lifestyles even when that style didn't suit their personality, background, lifestyle, needs, etc. Eventually, many moved on.

To me, it's notable that many of the guys who were into Rick Owens, Marigela, and Engineered Garments 15-20 years ago outlasted the "classic" menswear guys. Whereas many classic menswear guys moved on, there are some Rick, Margiela, and EG guys who have continued to wear the same things. And many of those pieces aren't caught in the fashion cycle because the clothing is too "weird," expensive, or connected to fringe groups. I think Georg Simmel still has the best essay describing how fashion changes, which he says is about how clothes are a form of social imitation.

I enjoyed this article by Rachel Tashjian. Her take is that the most sustainable wardrobe revolves around personal taste. For me, the catch is how do you develop personal taste? Many people have to consume a mountain of things to find those few pieces that resonate with them. And then we're back at square one.

The Most Sustainable Idea In Fashion Is Personal Style

We live in a post-trend world, but fashion’s whims control too much of our brain power.

www.gq.com

 

[ojaw]

Patagonia for all it's preaching is still a huge user of oil in it's line up, but kudos to Mr Chouinard for really pushing organic cotton.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

This entire thread drips with bourgeoise pretension.

 

[Badenoch]

But I've also found that many men who just got into clothing used the idea of "classic" to substitute for their own personal view and taste. Many tried to shoehorn classic wardrobes into thier lifestyles even when that style didn't suit their personality, background, lifestyle, needs, etc. Eventually, many moved on.

First, let me say I'm a big fan. I just started reading your blog a couple of months ago and your writing is fantastic.

I relate to this sentiment a lot. I'm a big fan of Tanner Guzy and his concept of male archetypes though after lots of thought I find the idea to be limiting and to have not reached its full conclusion. Tanner argues that men fit into some combination of three basic archetypes: Rugged, Rakish, or Refined. While that seems very true on the surface (and to some degree I think it is) circumstances dictate otherwise. My job may require me to be Refined but my hobbies may require me to be Rugged. What about when I go to a concert? Is that Rakishness? I think a true Renaissance man has to sort of speak all three archetypes fluently. But how do I do that sustainably? In my opinion, I need to limit the number of pieces that I need to feel comfortable in as many of those circumstances as possible and also to determine which set of circumstances I realistically find myself in most often. I love hiking but I do it on weekends most of the time, the other five days of the week are in a professional setting (like it or not). And that's where personal taste comes in.

Personal taste, in my opinion, is how my individual choices reflect in the clothing that I must wear for my circumstances. When I need to wear something for the circumstances that I anticipate later in the day, how does that manifest? If I know it is going to rain, what color of rain jacket will I wear? What type? Can I own one that works in multiple settings and circumstances like Bernie Sanders (hehehe - this is a joke not a political statement)? And then who am I when no one has expectations? How do I express myself when I have total freedom of choice? To me, those choices are personal taste.

Easier said than done!

I enjoyed this article by Rachel Tashjian. Her take is that the most sustainable wardrobe revolves around personal taste. For me, the catch is how do you develop personal taste? Many people have to consume a mountain of things to find those few pieces that resonate with them. And then we're back at square one.

The Most Sustainable Idea In Fashion Is Personal Style

We live in a post-trend world, but fashion’s whims control too much of our brain power.

www.gq.com

Exactly! I enjoyed this too and it speaks to some of what I've been feeling. Particularly this part:

"This is where certain brands said to operate in a paradise devoid of trends—The Row, or Engineered Garments, or Evan Kinori—come in. If you can’t tell one season from the other, you’re motivated by a different kind of desire than just newness. You will learn to keep things, you will buy with more thought and discretion, and you will stop thinking of your clothes as a recyclable collection. You aren’t a heartless billionaire buying art, after all—this is fashion we’re talking about!

But not all of us can turn our lives over to that kind of minimalism completely. Even vegans want to eat dessert, after all. We like street style because it shows us fashion in the real world—which is to say, it demonstrates how we can integrate all these crazy pieces, or the idea of them, into actual outfits for actual errands and events and meetings and so on. You don’t have to be a style ascetic to feel okay."

We live in real life and have to do things. Clothing is (and should be) functional. Even tailoring! You quoted Jake Grantham in your article "Tailoring for Younger Men" when he said “The great thing about tailored clothing is that it serves a social function. People wear tailored clothing to work, parties, and formal events. It allows people to do things, and doing things is really at the heart of style. Sometimes people think of tailoring as the stuff you buy and own, like stamp collecting. But real style is about going out and doing stuff; otherwise, you’re just dressing up. Doesn’t the Duke of Beaufort look better than a fashion model? It’s because he’s doing something in photos, not just staring blankly into a camera. Don’t let your clothes be the end-all, be-all.”

That's part of the reason that I've never been on the hypebeast train. And I think it's something that Diana cements in "Death of the Grown-Up". To a certain extent hypebeastislity (to borrow Rachel's term in her article) comes from an American (and now global) obsession with eternal youth and perpetual novelty, the latter of which is unsustainable by its very nature.

I recently penned my own thoughts on this and here's what I came up with:

"The true Renaissance Man transcends archetype. He knows who he is, his values, his priorities, his circumstances, and his audience. He dresses to express fluency in all. One may take more president at a given moment in time but he always strives to look put-together, thoughtful, purposeful. Whether he is climbing a mountain or attending the opera. The items with which he adorns himself are just tools in his toolbox. Resources to fulfill his purpose of the day or of the moment. When versatility is called for he dresses to the highest degree appropriate but only in the spirit of showing effort and mastery of forethought. If he is wrong, he should not allow himself to be shaken, for he has done his level best to plan ahead and present himself well. Everything else it outside of his control. Attention to detail and a preference for quality are paramount. As is a sense of responsible thoughtfulness toward the environmental and societal impacts of his choices. Whenever possible, he should seek to minimize negative consequences to his environment and his fellow man. An emphasis on quality should help in this arena. He is not given to trends for they are fleeting and ultimately destructive. His goal is timelessness and versatility with a mind toward purpose. His expression is understated and humble not gaudy or flashy. His presence should be the bass note of the symphony of his circumstances and his present company."

That #bethebassnote sentiment has sort of become my mantra of late when I get dressed. What does my day likely hold, how do I get ready for that?

To circle back though, Pedro does have some really great advice and tips about how to be mindful of that in his book (at least the parts that I've read so far) though I don't want to spoil it. Get a free electronic sample if you're interested and check it out. It's worth it.

Patagonia for all it's preaching is still a huge user of oil in it's line up, but kudos to Mr Chouinard for really pushing organic cotton.

100%. There is a fair degree of hypocrisy in Mr. Chouinard's execution sometimes. It's tough because polyester is a performance fabric necessary to remain dry and therefore warm outside. Wool is expensive and unattainable for many interested in being outside. It becomes a matter of access for some. Another company that is doing good work in this area (or at least trying) is PrAna. They just recently started phasing out their most popular product line and re-launching it made with only recycled polyester instead of virgin polyester. Not a perfect solution, but a step in the right direction. They also do a lot with organic cotton, bamboo, and hemp.

My ultimate solution has been to acquire a sewing machine and to teach myself how to sew so that I can make my own clothes (both for outdoor activities and otherwise) that suit my tall frame. I realize that this is extreme but it's the only recourse I feel I'm left with sometimes and I'm frustrated at always compromising about something. I decided to take matters into my own hands. Who knows, maybe I'll start a company and be the "Patagonia" of tall people.

 

[ojaw]

This entire thread drips with bourgeoise pretension.

Our leader, sustainably in like an unwashed tunic.

 

[ridgerider]

Where's that right-wing troll mute button again?

Same place as the leftist troll mute button I can’t find.

 

[ridgerider]

Boy this thread has captured a lot of philosophical thought.

When I got into the workplace in the mid late 80's, the advice I followed was always dress in natural fibers (wool, cotton, linen) and buy quality and not quantity. If you follow this and refrain from buying anything made in China, you're buying smart.

Sustainability is a new buzzword started by people younger than me so I guess it's very important to them but if you buy smart, you don't have to worry about that buzzword.

And to be fully transparent I do own a few athletic garments that are made from petroleum products that I wear for running. I understand there are companies making running gear in wool, which when this stuff wears out I will be looking in that direction.

 

[Keith Taylor]

Sustainability is a new buzzword started by people younger than me so I guess it's very important to them but if you buy smart, you don't have to worry about that buzzword.

It’s been used in its modern sense since 1972, so it was likely started by people older than you. I’m responsible for more than my fair share of waste so I can see the plank wedged firmly in my eye, but the fact that some believe it to be a new buzzword is part of the reason it’s so necessary. If we’d cared more and earlier the natural world might not be in such a sorry state today.

(We had another dust storm this week, by the by. The Gobi is encroaching ever more).

 

[Panama]

I'm reading a couple of really interesting books on this exact subject right now.

"Let My People Go Surfing: The Education of a Reluctant Businessman" by Yvon Chouinard about Patagonia's business culture and outlook on sustainability in clothing. One of the things that he mentions specifically in his book is that the most versatile and classic pieces Patagonia makes have always sold the best. He also has some tips including line drying, not ironing more than you have to, and buying second hand as much as possible, etc.

I just bought "Ten Garments Every Man Should Own: A Practical Guide to Building a Permanent Wardrobe" by Pedro Mendes which specifically deals with this subject in the context of classic menswear.

And finally I'm reading "The Death of a Grown-Up: How America's Arrested Development is Bringing Down Western Society" which doesn't deal specifically with clothing but does address some of the attitudes that lead to fast fashion and poor sustainability.

All great stuff and fascinating to think about!

I am very outdoorsy and have been interested in sustainability in clothing so it's interesting to think about in terms of classic menswear. Pedro makes a case that classic menswear may actually hold the best chance of being sustainable due to its timelessness and production practices (in some cases).

It's also interesting that the North Face recently made news for taking a stand and canceling the order of an oil corporation to protest their business practices only to be called out by that company for the fact that most of their product line is made from products of the oil and gas industry (nylon, polyester, etc.).

There is such a dichotomy between the outdoorsy subculture and the classic menswear culture. Being part of both sometimes makes me feel caught between worlds. The "rugged" style of "outdoorsy" brands is often purposefully designed to set itself apart from "classic" design of menswear. But rugged doesn't work in all cultural contexts and let's face it, hiking pants are rarely flattering off the trail.

But my opinion is that in order to beat this problem we've got to take Yvon's approach and design and wear well-made responsibly sourced clothing from sustainable fabrics with performance properties that fit all manner of circumstances, active or otherwise. Compartmentalizing our wardrobes just adds to the problem. Buy less, buy better.

As a side note, that's REALLY hard to do when you're 6'4" like me!

As a final note, it's important to consider the implications of shipping as well in the internet age. More online shopping (and returns!) means more carbon production. So it's not just how it's made and what it's made of but how it gets to you. I'm keenly aware of that given that my size is rarely carried in brick and mortar stores.

I am all for organic natural products and slow fashion that will last. The only thing polyester or nylon in the home are the shower curtain and maybe a few coat linings. I however, will never buy or wear second hand clothing...

 

[dieworkwear]

Boy this thread has captured a lot of philosophical thought.

When I got into the workplace in the mid late 80's, the advice I followed was always dress in natural fibers (wool, cotton, linen) and buy quality and not quantity. If you follow this and refrain from buying anything made in China, you're buying smart.

Sustainability is a new buzzword started by people younger than me so I guess it's very important to them but if you buy smart, you don't have to worry about that buzzword.

And to be fully transparent I do own a few athletic garments that are made from petroleum products that I wear for running. I understand there are companies making running gear in wool, which when this stuff wears out I will be looking in that direction.

Every bit of the fashion production process has some impact on the environment. Cotton, wool, silk, and flax, while natural fibers, still have an impact on the environment -- they don't just sprout out of the ground. Conventional cotton requires a ton of water, pesticides, and fertilizer to grow. The shrinking of the Aral Sea is a result of the adverse effects of irrigation. Cotton accounts for 2.5% of the world's arable land, but over 16% of the pesticide use.

Spinning and weaving will have other effects. This processing phase of turning fiber into a garment often requires chemical treatments such as scouring and carbonizing, which creates toxic pollutants in the surrounding environment. There's also the fuel required to transport materials and power industrial machines. In China and India, some of the rivers run blue, green, and purple from the nearby dyeing plants

Even very old, purely natural processes, such as the ones used to create ancient madder, have been found to leave carcinogens in the surrounding waterways. This is why you can no longer buy true ancient madder -- all the new madder is made differently and often looks different than the ones of yore. The stuff causes cancer.

 

[Panama]

I recently penned my own thoughts on this and here's what I came up with:

"The true Renaissance Man transcends archetype. He knows who he is, his values, his priorities, his circumstances, and his audience. He dresses to express fluency in all. One may take more president at a given moment in time but he always strives to look put-together, thoughtful, purposeful. Whether he is climbing a mountain or attending the opera. The items with which he adorns himself are just tools in his toolbox. Resources to fulfill his purpose of the day or of the moment. When versatility is called for he dresses to the highest degree appropriate but only in the spirit of showing effort and mastery of forethought. If he is wrong, he should not allow himself to be shaken, for he has done his level best to plan ahead and present himself well. Everything else it outside of his control. Attention to detail and a preference for quality are paramount. As is a sense of responsible thoughtfulness toward the environmental and societal impacts of his choices. Whenever possible, he should seek to minimize negative consequences to his environment and his fellow man. An emphasis on quality should help in this arena. He is not given to trends for they are fleeting and ultimately destructive. His goal is timelessness and versatility with a mind toward purpose. His expression is understated and humble not gaudy or flashy. His presence should be the bass note of the symphony of his circumstances and his present company."

What does he wear when cleaning the pee soaked wood chips and droppings from the kids rabbit hutch?

 

[ridgerider]

It’s been used in its modern sense since 1972, so it was likely started by people older than you. I’m responsible for more than my fair share of waste so I can see the plank wedged firmly in my eye, but the fact that some believe it to be a new buzzword is part of the reason it’s so necessary. If we’d cared more and earlier the natural world might not be in such a sorry state today.

(We had another dust storm this week, by the by. The Gobi is encroaching ever more).

sustainability has not been a concern nor a term used much at all in the modern lexicon until the last decade. I’ve been around long enough to know this to be a fact. Nobody discussed it in the boardrooms I was in until it became virtuous in the last decade and now it’s everywhere. It’s a buzzword.

Don’t buy from China, wear only a natural fibers, own fewer quality pieces and source as much as possible in your country. Simple and smart. If you’re not doing that, you’re part of the problem that you’re concerned about.

 

[dieworkwear]

sustainability has not been a concern nor a term used much at all in the modern lexicon until the last decade. I’ve been around long enough to know this to be a fact. Nobody discussed it in the boardrooms I was in until it became virtuous in the last decade and now it’s everywhere. It’s a buzzword.

Don’t buy from China, wear only a natural fibers, own fewer quality pieces and source as much as possible in your country. Simple and smart. If you’re not doing that, you’re part of the problem that you’re concerned about.

Espirit had an "Ecollection" in the early 1990s that promoted "retail activism" and encouraged people to buy more sustainable, recycled fabrics made with low-impact dyes. In the 1980s, London's Design Center held an exhibition for "Green Fashion" as a way to highlight the environmental impact of clothing production. These discussions were certainly around before the last decade.