SPIER & MACKAY - Official Affiliate Thread

[gonnagetmine]

Re: Armhole

To clear up any speculation and hopefully to put this discussion to rest I’ll explain what was done with the armhole in FW21.

For a several seasons, we were hearing a few complaints and murmurings that the armholes were too low. Though sales were fine, and we were not getting any significant negative feedback, we’re always looking to make improvements. So, we thought it was time to raise the armhole. We bought several jackets from a scattering of brands within the same space to evaluate, and found a huge variation, some lower, some higher with varying levels of comfort. We discussed at length with our in-house tailors as well as our pattern maker and decided that raising 2 cm would be sufficient to make a discernable difference and improvement.

We made 2 sample rounds of the jacket, tried it and tested it. What we noticed is that you could feel the difference when compared to the previous jacket, BUT it was still comfortable and offered better range of motion with little restriction. The caveat being that if you are used to the previous jacket, it does take a little getting used to the feeling. As this was more or less in-line with a couple of the brands we purchased samples, we didn’t think this was going to be a big issue, so we went ahead.

For those speculating, when raising the armhole, the armhole width was also increased to offset the rise, this is standard practice. We didn’t just raise the armhole and make the armhole smaller as some have suggested.

The first production jackets started to arrive in late September/early October. The initial feedback was as expected, guys could notice the change, but was welcome but did take some getting used to. We also attributed that to the thicker FW fabrics, such as flannel and tweed. Our samples jackets were in simple worsteds.

During this initial period, we did not receive any alarming or negative feedback regarding the armhole, so SS22 was moved into production. It wasn’t until mid/late November we got some feedback that the armhole could be moved back down slightly. This feedback mostly on this forum and some DM’s on IG. Just talking to the shop manager now, he notes that maybe 3 or 4 guys total for the entire season, have commented on the armhole difference.

Honestly, the sales and return rate have been almost exactly in line with our projections and have kept steady. Generally, if there is a significant fit issue, we see a spike in returns of that product. This has not been the case. That said, as we are always trying to improve, we’re moving the armhole down 1 cm which should provide a good middle ground of comfort and high armhole range of motion. The change will be in the 2nd half of SS22 with the products that will arrive late March/Early April. Regardless, the SS fabrics are lighter and thinner than the FW fabrics and by default are fitting a touch looser in the armhole when directly compared.

Further to this, scooping the bottom of the armhole can be done and lowered that 1 cm if needed. If you are having an issue, you can reach out to CS and we can help out.

Hop this clears things up and put this to bed.

Rick thanks for the clarification. I just bought the SS22 Bottoli brown PoW SC. From what you're saying it sounds like this will only be made in the current Neo cut and only future offerings will be in the middle-ground armhole? I really like the fabric but would like the lower armhole.

 

[spiermackay]

I assume that the RTW core suit there was no change made to the arm holes correct

No change to the regular, standard core suits. Generally all the Filarte stuff.

If it's a Neo cut suit, that will have the change.

 

[spiermackay]

Rick thanks for the clarification. I just bought the SS22 Bottoli brown PoW SC. From what you're saying it sounds like this will only be made in the current Neo cut and only future offerings will be in the middle-ground armhole? I really like the fabric but would like the lower armhole.

This is as it was in production before we could make the change back lower. BUT as mentioned, a good tailor can lower the armhole about 1 cm.

 

[MrFingers]

Re: Armhole

To clear up any speculation and hopefully to put this discussion to rest I’ll explain what was done with the armhole in FW21.

For a several seasons, we were hearing a few complaints and murmurings that the armholes were too low. Though sales were fine, and we were not getting any significant negative feedback, we’re always looking to make improvements. So, we thought it was time to raise the armhole. We bought several jackets from a scattering of brands within the same space to evaluate, and found a huge variation, some lower, some higher with varying levels of comfort. We discussed at length with our in-house tailors as well as our pattern maker and decided that raising 2 cm would be sufficient to make a discernable difference and improvement.

We made 2 sample rounds of the jacket, tried it and tested it. What we noticed is that you could feel the difference when compared to the previous jacket, BUT it was still comfortable and offered better range of motion with little restriction. The caveat being that if you are used to the previous jacket, it does take a little getting used to the feeling. As this was more or less in-line with a couple of the brands we purchased samples, we didn’t think this was going to be a big issue, so we went ahead.

For those speculating, when raising the armhole, the armhole width was also increased to offset the rise, this is standard practice. We didn’t just raise the armhole and make the armhole smaller as some have suggested.

The first production jackets started to arrive in late September/early October. The initial feedback was as expected, guys could notice the change, but was welcome but did take some getting used to. We also attributed that to the thicker FW fabrics, such as flannel and tweed. Our samples jackets were in simple worsteds.

During this initial period, we did not receive any alarming or negative feedback regarding the armhole, so SS22 was moved into production. It wasn’t until mid/late November we got some feedback that the armhole could be moved back down slightly. This feedback mostly on this forum and some DM’s on IG. Just talking to the shop manager now, he notes that maybe 3 or 4 guys total for the entire season, have commented on the armhole difference.

Honestly, the sales and return rate have been almost exactly in line with our projections and have kept steady. Generally, if there is a significant fit issue, we see a spike in returns of that product. This has not been the case. That said, as we are always trying to improve, we’re moving the armhole down 1 cm which should provide a good middle ground of comfort and high armhole range of motion. The change will be in the 2nd half of SS22 with the products that will arrive late March/Early April. Regardless, the SS fabrics are lighter and thinner than the FW fabrics and by default are fitting a touch looser in the armhole when directly compared.

Further to this, scooping the bottom of the armhole can be done and lowered that 1 cm if needed. If you are having an issue, you can reach out to CS and we can help out.

Hop this clears things up and put this to bed.

Hey guys, thanks for addressing this. Was there a common denominator with the people that did have notable issues with the new armhole?

 

[Imperatores]

@spiermackay Appreciate the clarification. Is the armhole the same height on slim and contemporary Neo jackets in the same size?

 

[spiermackay]

@spiermackay Appreciate the clarification. Is the armhole the same height on slim and contemporary Neo jackets in the same size?

Yes.

 

[spiermackay]

Hey guys, thanks for addressing this. Was there a common denominator with the people that did have notable issues with the new armhole?

Not really, as mentioned we didn't really get a lot of complaints. The issue was mostly about difference in the feel. The raised armhole can be felt. More that you're conscious that it's there. Not that it was actually uncomfortable, but definitely noticeable compared to the older armhole - Which the complaint was too low.

 

[James1051]

Oh, boy. I better buy the high-rise armhole jackets now before they're re-readjusted.

Threadwinner!

 

[MrFingers]

Not really, as mentioned we didn't really get a lot of complaints. The issue was mostly about difference in the feel. The raised armhole can be felt. More that you're conscious that it's there. Not that it was actually uncomfortable, but definitely noticeable compared to the older armhole - Which the complaint was too low.

Thanks! While you’re here, why don’t you tell us what’s coming this season? ?

 

[spiermackay]

Thanks! While you’re here, why don’t you tell us what’s coming this season? ?

Keep watching the spring preview page.

 

[wilcthree]

Wore a bunch of Spier this past week. Some stuff I was able to get pics of, some I wasn’t.

Tried the whole sportcoat and jeans thing when I went to smoke a cigar. Pictured here is the brown hopsack sportcoat, FW ‘21.

Whole outfit Spier. Hopsack Neo, frescos, Italian button down collar shirt. Was told recently this shirt was too sexy. ??‍♂️

Just returned from the tailor with a whole Spier hull. More pics to come this week, as I’m supposedly due back in the office in a few days…

 

[James1051]

Yes.

Which version of the pattern is used if I do an MTO jacket or suit now? raised 2cm or raised 1cm?

 

[ksinc]

Yes, all the sportcoats. They are actually all on the same pattern block.

how do we know what armhole in MTO? If I ordered standard s/c (not neo) contemporary in December am I getting the old or new armhole? The armholes are already too small.

I look for consistency. Constantly making changes defeats the purpose of being loyal.

I only bought BB for 25 years until I could no longer get consistent, repeatable results.

This is very frustrating as all you ever mentioned and what is on the website refers to neo Cut changes. Not Std.

how are you Going to get repeat customers satisfied when we can’t order the same size and get the same fit?

none of this is disclosed outside new rtw neo on the website.

And its Not like returns are easy with you.

 

[Jlee80]

Honestly, I think Rick does a pretty damn good job of communicating with customers… I’d argue his participation on the forum is almost counter-productive to him as some people seem to never be happy… armhole isn’t high enough, armhole is too high, can we get super super super high rise trousers, etc.

Embrace that he comes on here and speaks directly to the small base of his customers… as I’m sure most people don’t have such needy requests. I swear I read some of these replies and feel bad for the guy.

Not everything is perfect, but not many business owners take the time to engage here and on IG like he does.

 

[wilcthree]

Re: Armhole

To clear up any speculation and hopefully to put this discussion to rest I’ll explain what was done with the armhole in FW21.

For a several seasons, we were hearing a few complaints and murmurings that the armholes were too low. Though sales were fine, and we were not getting any significant negative feedback, we’re always looking to make improvements. So, we thought it was time to raise the armhole. We bought several jackets from a scattering of brands within the same space to evaluate, and found a huge variation, some lower, some higher with varying levels of comfort. We discussed at length with our in-house tailors as well as our pattern maker and decided that raising 2 cm would be sufficient to make a discernable difference and improvement.

We made 2 sample rounds of the jacket, tried it and tested it. What we noticed is that you could feel the difference when compared to the previous jacket, BUT it was still comfortable and offered better range of motion with little restriction. The caveat being that if you are used to the previous jacket, it does take a little getting used to the feeling. As this was more or less in-line with a couple of the brands we purchased samples, we didn’t think this was going to be a big issue, so we went ahead.

For those speculating, when raising the armhole, the armhole width was also increased to offset the rise, this is standard practice. We didn’t just raise the armhole and make the armhole smaller as some have suggested.

The first production jackets started to arrive in late September/early October. The initial feedback was as expected, guys could notice the change, but was welcome but did take some getting used to. We also attributed that to the thicker FW fabrics, such as flannel and tweed. Our samples jackets were in simple worsteds.

During this initial period, we did not receive any alarming or negative feedback regarding the armhole, so SS22 was moved into production. It wasn’t until mid/late November we got some feedback that the armhole could be moved back down slightly. This feedback mostly on this forum and some DM’s on IG. Just talking to the shop manager now, he notes that maybe 3 or 4 guys total for the entire season, have commented on the armhole difference.

Honestly, the sales and return rate have been almost exactly in line with our projections and have kept steady. Generally, if there is a significant fit issue, we see a spike in returns of that product. This has not been the case. That said, as we are always trying to improve, we’re moving the armhole down 1 cm which should provide a good middle ground of comfort and high armhole range of motion. The change will be in the 2nd half of SS22 with the products that will arrive late March/Early April. Regardless, the SS fabrics are lighter and thinner than the FW fabrics and by default are fitting a touch looser in the armhole when directly compared.

Further to this, scooping the bottom of the armhole can be done and lowered that 1 cm if needed. If you are having an issue, you can reach out to CS and we can help out.

Hop this clears things up and put this to bed.

Appreciate the clarification. Looking forward to what’s to come.