SPIER & MACKAY - Official Affiliate Thread

[DonRaphael]

I'm frankly shocked that S&M ever achieved any level of accuracy or consistency with Chinese factory labor at this price point. I hate to call their customers' expectations unrealistic, but there's a reason you pay 2-4x more for tailored products from well-regarded Italian factories. In my experience, you really do get what you pay for, and you pay for what you get.

To be fair, the other Av I'm talking about uses Indian labour and before the price hikes, their stuff was cheaper than Spier's stuff. The fact that stuff are manufactured in China or India doesn't equate to inconsistency.

 

[Jlee80]

To be fair, the other Av I'm talking about uses Indian labour and before the price hikes, their stuff was cheaper than Spier's stuff. The fect that stuff are manufactured in China or India doesn't equate to inconsistency.

I agree. I don’t remember these types of inconsistencies circa 2018, 2019. And again, when you’re commissioning an MTO suit, or sport coat… you are paying an additional fee for an item that is supposed to be made to spec.

I see way too many comments where people are to accepting of the “tolerance” excuse. And I get it, the more request and customizations you have, the trickier it will be. But a company should do everything they can to make their customers happy. However, when some of the MTO customizations are just shorter sleeves, pant length or waist sizing… the types of issues being had shouldn’t be had.

Again, this isn’t just an S&M issue… they are still a lot better than other companies, but I really, really hope they get back to what made them such a phenomenal option three and four years ago.

 

[DonRaphael]

I agree. I don’t remember these types of inconsistencies circa 2018, 2019. And again, when you’re commissioning an MTO suit, or sport coat… you are paying an additional fee for an item that is supposed to be made to spec.

I see way too many comments where people are to accepting of the “tolerance” excuse. And I get it, the more request and customizations you have, the trickier it will be. But a company should do everything they can to make their customers happy. However, when some of the MTO customizations are just shorter sleeves, pant length or waist sizing… the types of issues being had shouldn’t be had.

Again, this isn’t just an S&M issue… they are still a lot better than other companies, but I really, really hope they get back to what made them such a phenomenal option three and four years ago.

I mean, I get that shoulder width can be tricky to nail. So 0,25" deviation is understandable as stated on the website. But stuff like inseam I don't get, it's literally a straight line from crotch seam down to the hem.

Spier offers a great value proposition, so not taking away from the fact. But I feel like they should be able to offer more consistency since there clearly are other brands here that are able to and tha operates in the same region as Spier.

 

[iloveplaid]

When you sent the return package, was it through their return process? Or did you just send the package back through your own shipping method?

I guess they’re just really behind, which is fine provided they catch up in a reasonable timeframe.

I sent a return package to them which was received 10 days ago. I emailed the same day for confirmation but haven't received a response since. Tried to get in touch with Rick on IG for a week now as well without any success. He hasn't even opened my messages. So response time seems slower than usual.



For reference, I had placed an order for MTO items a couple of months ago that arrived some weeks ago. I did share a list on here with requirements that I ask Spier to check when going the MTO route. I did find some success with it previously. But my last order came with the usual inconsistencies. Just wanted to put that out there since I've stated that I've been completely satisfied with my MTOs previously. Not so much with my last order. Back to square one.

I must say, I don't know why Spier has such inconsistencies. There's another affiliate vendor on here from whom I've ordered shirts and trousers for the last +10 years and never have they ever deviated from my measurements. 100 % consistency during all these years. Down to every detail.

I sent a return package to them which was received 10 days ago. I emailed the same day for confirmation but haven't received a response since. Tried to get in touch with Rick on IG for a week now as well without any success. He hasn't even opened my messages. So response time seems slower than usual.



For reference, I had placed an order for MTO items a couple of months ago that arrived some weeks ago. I did share a list on here with requirements that I ask Spier to check when going the MTO route. I did find some success with it previously. But my last order came with the usual inconsistencies. Just wanted to put that out there since I've stated that I've been completely satisfied with my MTOs previously. Not so much with my last order. Back to square one.

I must say, I don't know why Spier has such inconsistencies. There's another affiliate vendor on here from whom I've ordered shirts and trousers for the last +10 years and never have they ever deviated from my measurements. 100 % consistency during all these years. Down to every detail.

 

[DonRaphael]

When you sent the return package, was it through their return process? Or did you just send the package back through your own shipping method?

I guess they’re just really behind, which is fine provided they catch up in a reasonable timeframe.

I sent back through my own shopping method. But only after email confirmation since I reside in Europe.

I'm fine with the delay. Not worried. Just saying there seems to be unusual backlog.

 

[Imperatores]

But stuff like inseam I don't get, it's literally a straight line from crotch seam down to the hem.

Indeed. Jacket length is the really big one, I feel. That needs to be close to perfect every time. There shouldn't be any "tolerance" beyond just a couple millimeters in either direction. A +/- 1/4" tolerance on length is too much. And the 1/2" tolerance on RTW is just absurd.

 

[FlyingHorker]

I'm frankly shocked that S&M ever achieved any level of accuracy or consistency with Chinese factory labor at this price point. I hate to call their customers' expectations unrealistic, but there's a reason you pay 2-4x more for tailored products from well-regarded Italian factories. In my experience, you really do get what you pay for, and you pay for what you get.

Outdated opinion. China's labour and quality output has been building for decades. Now Vietnam is going in that direction too.

I had a shirt made by Ratio clothing some years ago, and it was made in the USA. The shirt was sloppily made in terms of finish. The shirt was remade using a factory in Vietnam and was laser precise. I think Proper Cloth makes their shirts in the same factory now. TAL group maybe.

Italy often uses inexpensive labour from Chinese immigrants to create the coveted "Made In Italy" label.

FWIW, I recently had a bespoke suit made by my local tailor in the "Summer Tweed" cloth previously offered by S&M. The price point was about the same as a high end MTO suit from S&M. $1000-1100CAD.

I put it on, and I was shocked at how awful it looked on me. My RTW S&M sports coats and suits looked better. No sleeve pitch issues, too tight chests, divots, high button points, etc.

It made me appreciate how good S&M's suit and sports coat value is, and their dress trousers.

If they can get their MTO quality control fixed, that'd be ace.

 

[FlyingHorker]

For S&M and quality control, I'd say their best value lies in RTW overcoats, suits, sports coats, and dress trousers.

Everything else is all over the place.

 

[JTrent82]

Outdated opinion. China's labour and quality output has been building for decades. Now Vietnam is going in that direction too.

Italy often uses inexpensive labour from Chinese immigrants to create the coveted "Made In Italy" label.

Just to be clear, I'm not making the argument that the Chinese, in general, produce inferior clothing, but rather that well-paid laborers, in general, produce superior products to poorly-paid laborers. I'm quite certain that there are very good Chinese factories and also very crappy Italian factories.

When I see a product that's cheaper than I would expect it to be, I wonder where corners have been cut. S&M produces relatively inexpensive tailoring, and we see QC issues often. Posters here seem to think this is a newish problem, and as a new customer, I'll have to take your word for it. But as someone who's generally very cynical about labor practices, I am not at all surprised that products at this price point suffer from QC issues.

 

[FlyingHorker]

For S&M and quality control, I'd say their best value lies in RTW overcoats, suits, sports coats, and dress trousers.

Everything else is all over the place.

Just to be clear, I'm not making the argument that the Chinese, in general, produce inferior clothing, but rather that well-paid laborers, in general, produce superior products to poorly-paid laborers. I'm quite certain that there are very good Chinese factories and also very crappy Italian factories.

When I see a product that's cheaper than I would expect it to be, I wonder where corners have been cut. S&M produces relatively inexpensive tailoring, and we see QC issues often. Posters here seem to think this is a newish problem, and as a new customer, I'll have to take your word for it. But as someone who's generally very cynical about labor practices, I am not at all surprised that products at this price point suffer from QC issues.

Ahhhh ok, then we are on the same page @ the bolded.

S&M has had QC problems for years, a poster mentioned this some pages back. There are certain things that are very consistent from S&M, and others that are a crap shoot. I quoted them from my post above.

I think it's possible that S&M CAN'T improve QC, as much as we'd like.

 

[JTrent82]

I think it's possible that S&M CAN'T improve QC, as much as we'd like.

I think that in order to do so, the cost of the final product would likely be significantly increased.

 

[Mr. Spectre]

Do you have any pics of it closed and without the backpack? It looks surprisingly fitted if that is indeed your SC size. The chart makes them seem huge. How's sleeve width and armhole height?

It's a fitted cut. I'm a 40R and M was too big on me. The S is a perfect fit without the liner.

 

[Jlee80]

Indeed. Jacket length is the really big one, I feel. That needs to be close to perfect every time. There shouldn't be any "tolerance" beyond just a couple millimeters in either direction. A +/- 1/4" tolerance on length is too much. And the 1/2" tolerance on RTW is just absurd.

This x100

 

[Jamesbond1]

Outdated opinion. China's labour and quality output has been building for decades. Now Vietnam is going in that direction too.

I had a shirt made by Ratio clothing some years ago, and it was made in the USA. The shirt was sloppily made in terms of finish. The shirt was remade using a factory in Vietnam and was laser precise. I think Proper Cloth makes their shirts in the same factory now. TAL group maybe.

Italy often uses inexpensive labour from Chinese immigrants to create the coveted "Made In Italy" label.

FWIW, I recently had a bespoke suit made by my local tailor in the "Summer Tweed" cloth previously offered by S&M. The price point was about the same as a high end MTO suit from S&M. $1000-1100CAD.

I put it on, and I was shocked at how awful it looked on me. My RTW S&M sports coats and suits looked better. No sleeve pitch issues, too tight chests, divots, high button points, etc.

It made me appreciate how good S&M's suit and sports coat value is, and their dress trousers.

If they can get their MTO quality control fixed, that'd be ace.

Bespoke suit for $1100.00? That is an unbelievable value? Who is the tailor?

 

[FlyingHorker]

Bespoke suit for $1100.00? That is an unbelievable value? Who is the tailor?

Unfortunately, it wasn't a great value, hence my post. My off the rack S&M suits/jackets look, feel and fit far better.

I'll DM you the tailor.