Semi-elegant waterproof winter coat or parka over a suit?

[emptym]

Jackets made with two layers of ventile and the heavier types (used for tents) are waterproof. My trench is of a heavy Ventile, made by Luxire, and it hasn't leaked on me, although I haven't tested it in hours of heavy downpour, like I have Gore-tex. But, I can't imagine needing to.

Wings and Horns has a Schoeller waterproof wool + light insulation parka
Westcomb's Mont Parka is Schoeller nanosphere and insulated, but probably a thick insulation.
Missionworkshop has a c-change parka, but it's uninsulated.
Goldwin and Isaora often have subdued waterproof parkas.
Canada Goose and Aigle surely have waterproof and insulated stuff.

 

[Patrick R]

I’ve been wearing the SB for two years. The arms are lined. It’s definitely warm enough for real winter climates.

 

[TheLondoner]

I’m not a big fan of the Canada Goose style; plus, most, if not all, of their parkas do not have a proper waterproof membrane and are not truly waterproof. They are really meant for freezing, dry climates – or for those who want to show off the logo


Is there such a thing as waterproof wool? I always thought wool can be made somewhat water-repellent, but never totally waterproof. Like I said, Zegna makes water-repellent coats in what they call TechMerino, but they advertise it as water-resistant, not waterproof, and their customer care confirmed as much via email (that it’s not truly waterproof).


As far as I understand it, Westcomb’s Montparka uses Schoeller’s “nanosphere”, which is a fancy name for a DWR coating/treatment – it is NOT a waterproof membrane.


Aigle does have a few GoreTex parkas; I hadn’t heard of the bran before, thanks.


Isaora is not available in Europe AFAIK.


Goldwin does have a GoreTex parka, but it’s not very nice.

 

[TheLondoner]

I’ve been wearing the SB for two years. The arms are lined. It’s definitely warm enough for real winter climates.

Ah, so it's not a unlined coat you can use when it rains in the summer?
What kind of climate (temperature, humidity, rain ) have you been wearing yours in?

Also, if you don't mind my asking, do you tend to drive everywhere like in many parts of the US, or do you take public transport and walk more (like in NY and most of Europe)? I ask simply because this makes a lot of difference wrt to cold weather coats.

 

[WSW]

You mentioned that you did not like Veilance in one of your earlier posts. Besides the pricing, what were your objections? I have a couple of Veilance jackets and have found them to be well made and high performing for the city.

 

[emptym]

Wescomb doesn't specify which schoeller fabric they use, but the say it's waterproof, not water resistant. The schoeller wool stuff has a laminated membrane, and they call it waterproof.

Loro Piana's storm system wool stuff has a waterproof membrane too. One thing to be careful about is whether the seams are sealed. A garment could be made of a waterproof fabric but not have sealed seams, so the garment wouldn't be truly waterproof.

 

[TheLondoner]

Westcombe’s official site states they use Nanosphere in their Montparka:

https://westcomb.com/product/mont-parka/

No other membrane is reported. My understanding of nanosphere, from looking at Schoeller’s website, is that it’s a coating, not a membrane. Schoeller’s website calls it water-repellent, not waterproof: https://www.schoeller-textiles.com/en/technologies/nanosphere

I could be wrong, of course, but this is my understanding based on the information the manufacturer has published. In my experience, when a product does have a feature, the manufacturer tends to shout about it from the rooftops!


I wasn’t familiar with LoroPiana’s storm system; I had a look: nice stuff, but waaay too expensive.


As for Veilance: I do have some Arcteryx gear (the Interstate jacket, a casual, lightweight, non-insulated 3-layer goretex jacket), the Ames (a lightly insulated [60g/sqm Coreloft] casual GoreTex jacket), and the Atom LT and SL midlayers. Arcteryx makes great gear – no doubt about that.


But Veilance is just insane; they want to sell a nylon backpack for £720 (USD 800): https://veilance.arcteryx.com/gb/en/shop/nomin-pack I mean, really? What are they on? I’d be curious to see how many they have sold!


As for their coats, they’re not just overpriced – there are a number of things I really dislike. None of this would matter much if they cost a fraction of what they cost, but at those price levels one has the right to be picky!

Arcteryx in general doesn’t like using two-way zippers unless the coat is very, very long. This is true of their Veilance range, too. The monitor coats (both the down and the non-down version) have a one-way zipper which doesn’t extend all the way down, and is exposed (no flap covering it). IMHO it’s extremely ugly, silly and non-functional.

The Node Down seems identical to Arcteryx’s ordinary jackets/coats (like the Camosun), except for the 3-layer vs 2-layer construction, which IMHO doesn’t justify the price difference.

In the Patrol Down Coat, the down jacket can be removed, or attached with some buttons, but, when you attach it, it still seems kind of loose, it does not integrate well with the outer shell.

The Galvanic Down coat is the one I like the most/dislike the least, but I really hate the internal pockets with vertical rather than horizontal zippers; a horizontal closure makes it so much easier to get your phone in and out without needing to close the zipper every single time. The Moorer Vermont-by I posted has some great internal pockets with horizontal openings (visible from one of the links I posted); sure, if you put bulky stuff it will bulge, but the ability to put thin lightweight gloves or glass cases is useful. Not to mention that the Moorer Vermont-by is about 20% cheaper, the Prada I linked is about the same price, the Herno with GoreTex is about half the price…

Of course I appreciate these things are very subjective and YMMV – these are just my very personal preferences.

 

[Patrick R]

Ah, so it's not a unlined coat you can use when it rains in the summer?
What kind of climate (temperature, humidity, rain ) have you been wearing yours in?

Also, if you don't mind my asking, do you tend to drive everywhere like in many parts of the US, or do you take public transport and walk more (like in NY and most of Europe)? I ask simply because this makes a lot of difference wrt to cold weather coats.

I have taken the lining out and worn it in the summer as a rain coat once. I wouldn't again. I would wear a rain coat meant for warmer weather.

I drive to and from work, but I might walk 3-5 miles outdoors during the day to and from meetings and such. I own two businesses located about a mile apart from each other in downtown Chicago and it isn't uncommon for me to go back and forth mid-day. I generally start wearing mine when the temperatures get into the high 40s and wear it down to the coldest Chicago weather. However, if it gets into the single digits here, I would definitely have warm base layers, a scarf, cap, etc. I am sure the Moscow is warmer, but I don't have any need a coat warmer than the SB in Chicago.

 

[emptym]

The Norwegian Rain jacket is a great option.

As you mentioned, and as far as I understand it, Nanosphere is a DWR, a coating that could be used for many fabrics. Westcomb says the fabric has Nanosphere, and that the fabric is by Schoeller, but it doesn't specifiy which Schoeller fabric is used, which admittedly is strange. They claim the garment is waterproof, and I'd guess it is, but you'd have to ask them which fabric to clear up any doubts. But the jacket is probably too thick for your intended use.

I'm with you 100% on 2-way zips. I prefer them for jackets of all lengths. It's one reason I like Fjalraven -- I believe it's their standard. Westcomb has a search feature for 2-way zips. Patagonia used to offer them, but stopped. Probably because people find them a bit fiddly. But I love the functionality.

 

[TheLondoner]

Arcteryx's customer care wrote by email that they don't use two-way zips unless they absolutely have to because they tend to be more fiddly and they (Arcteryx) have way more warranty claims for two-way zips. I have never broken a two-way zip, so I must be either luckier or more careful than most! With a hip-length jacket it's not a great deal, but with anything longer IMHO it is.

Out of curiosity, are UberFunction and Moorer sold in the US? I think Uber is a nice concept; in London it's sold by Snow and Rock (a bit like REI), in their stores in the two financial districts. Shame for the name - it creates a lot of confusion with the taxi app. Their first jackets even had a logo and a text that was all too similar (even if they were founded first).

 

[WSW]

I agree on the utility of two-way zippers, although my Veilance jackets have been on the shorter side and I have not noticed the absence as much. I also agree that prices have gone up too much, but they have few competitors. If you want a sleek no-logo high performance jacket that is appropriate for the city, Veilance is one of the few options.

I think Barneys sells Moorer.

 

[comrade]

For classic styling that doesn't look at all "technical"

This Raglan coat is supposedly WATERPROOF, not just repellant:

http://www.oconnellsclothing.com/O-Connell-s-Waterproof-Covert-Raincoat-Taupe.html,

In my experience Loden is extremely water repellant and very warm:

http://www.oconnellsclothing.com/Salko-Loden-Topcoat-Sand-Hubertus-Charcoal-WFZ-Charcoal.html

The last time I was in London in December I saw this coat frequently in the
West End.

Finally, reversibles from the UK are another classic solution:

http://www.oconnellsclothing.com/Chrysalis/

 

[emptym]

^That covert coat is very nice. And I'm a fan of anything Chrysalis. I have a duffle coat from them, bought at STP at like 90% off.

I don't think I've ever seen Uber or Moorer irl. Goldwin stuff is very nice in person.

 

[TheLondoner]

The Italian Fay has this coat in some kind of synthetic fabric, which still looks very stylish IMHO :
http://store.fay.com/GB/Double-Coat-in-High-Tech-Fabric/p/NAM5331168SCLRB999
Probably not entirely waterproof, though.
Not sure what to make of the handwarmers on the sides: convenient, but they make it much less formal.
No hood.

 

[TheLondoner]

I went to have a look at the Norwegian Rain store. I made a post in the dedicated thread here:

https://www.styleforum.net/threads/...es-rive-gauche-coa.517218/page-7#post-9076813


Almost next to the NR store there’s the Arcteryx store, with some Veilance stuff. I must say that, in the one with the removable down (Patrol down coat), the down was not as loose as in some pictures, but the jacket was a bit too puffy and short for me; it’s not something I’d wear over a suit. Plus the lack of a two-way zipper is annoying. The Galvanic Down Coat seems, from the pictures, better over a suit, but it wasn’t in store. The Monitor Down coat looked simply horrible with the one-way zip much shorter than the coat, and with no flap covering it. The Node down and the Field IS jacket looked kinda ugly, too: I’d struggle to justify the price difference vs brands like The North Face, but of course these things are very subjective. I like that Veylance uses 3-layer GoreTex whereas most insulated gear, even Arcteryx’s, tends to use 2-layer; 3-layer is meant to be better for water resistance, and I think it drapes better. However, everything else seems like an epic fail to me. YMMV, of course.


I also tried the Arcteryx Camosun and Arcteryx Therme parkas. Neither would be appropriate over a suit. The black Therme is not really black, more greyish. The hood is way too roomy and would allow too much cold wind in; come on, Arcteryx, for an urban parka not meant to be worn with a helmet, this is a basic design flaw. The Camosun does not have a two-way zipper. Both have an annoying smallish internal pocket with a vertical zip – this means that, if you put your phone in, you must lock the zipper to make sure it doesn’t fall out. Horizontal zips, or at least vertical zips with more spacious pockets, are way more functional.