OTR "drape cut" jacket options?

[king_of_cups]

(a bit of a novice question, here.)

If I'm interested in more drape in my jackets, is that something I can reasonably get from an OTR jacket? It still feels like most OTR options are fixated on ultra-slim silhouettes -- am I just looking in the wrong places?

If not OTR, is this something I can get in the MTM space? If so, where, and what do I ask for when getting measured?

 

[Phileas Fogg]

Just tell them you don’t want too much waist suppression and a jacket with a more traditional fit.

Most made to measure shops will have jackets you can try on for sizing and fit. Just explain what it is that you want.

 

[dieworkwear]

AFAIK, there are no true drape jackets off-the-rack. Drape is a result of two things: the way the pattern is cut and then how the horsehair chest piece is cut on the bias and inserted into the chest. Without the two combined, you don't get a true drape jacket.

That said, a friend of mine uses Steed and he sometimes approximates drape by sizing up one in the chest at Spier & Mackay, getting higher armholes, and taking in the waist. FWIW, his Steed drape jackets are not as drape-y as some (it's not DDL's coats in Phantom Thread, for reference). But both his Steed and S&M coats look nice.

 

[king_of_cups]

[...] he sometimes approximates drape by sizing up one in the chest at Spier & Mackay, getting higher armholes, and taking in the waist [...]

Thanks! When you say your friend gets higher armholes, is that something he's doing at the tailor after the fact, or is it just something he's getting from, say, the S & M Neapolitan cut?

 

[dieworkwear]

Thanks! When you say your friend gets higher armholes, is that something he's doing at the tailor after the fact, or is it just something he's getting from, say, the S & M Neapolitan cut?

I just spoke to him last night about it. He went from a 42 to 43 for the chest size. He then went one tick wider for the shoulder measurement (by tick he means the form widget Spier & Mackay uses to increase/ reduce values). For him, that's going from 18.9 to 19.15. For waist size, he went down four ticks. He shortened the jacket one tick to get it closer to a 42. He adjusted the sleeve length to match his right arm, and then had the left shortened by an alterations tailor.

A couple of my friends use Spier & Mackay and say they just play around with the sizing system. They buy a couple of sizes to see how the base pattern fits, and then play around with it. They also accept that they may have to trash experimental coats when they don't work out.

I asked my friend how does this fiddling around achieve the roundness you see in bespoke drape. So for example, the roundness you see here is a result of the pattern cutting and how the chest piece was cut on a bias.

My friend said, "it's not bespoke." Which is to say that you don't really achieve that true drape/ round effect. But you may be able to get the V-shaped figure that drape is known for.

 

[TheShetlandSweater]

(a bit of a novice question, here.)

If I'm interested in more drape in my jackets, is that something I can reasonably get from an OTR jacket? It still feels like most OTR options are fixated on ultra-slim silhouettes -- am I just looking in the wrong places?

If not OTR, is this something I can get in the MTM space? If so, where, and what do I ask for when getting measured?

It seems like you are talking about two different things. Are you just looking for a roomier chest/jacket? OR, are you looking for a jacket with a drape cut?

 

[king_of_cups]

You may have a point, because I'm still new to the concept of drape! As someone who has more of a rectangular-shaped body, I'm not really helped by the ultra-slim/ultra-clean profiles of most OTR options I've run into. I'm not looking for a 'roomier' jacket, but rather for a jacket that 1) uses a little shoulder extension / waist suppression to give the illusion of shape, and 2) moves a little more elegantly than slimmer offerings. If that's not "drape," I'm sorry for the confusion! Can you suggest anything?

 

[king_of_cups]

It seems like you are talking about two different things. Are you just looking for a roomier chest/jacket? OR, are you looking for a jacket with a drape cut?

You may have a point, because I'm still new to the concept of drape! As someone who has more of a rectangular-shaped body, I'm not really helped by the ultra-slim/ultra-clean profiles of most OTR options I've run into. I'm not looking for a 'roomier' jacket, but rather for a jacket that 1) uses a little shoulder extension / waist suppression to give the illusion of shape, and 2) moves a little more elegantly than slimmer offerings. If that's not "drape," I'm sorry for the confusion! Can you suggest anything?

 

[TheShetlandSweater]

You may have a point, because I'm still new to the concept of drape! As someone who has more of a rectangular-shaped body, I'm not really helped by the ultra-slim/ultra-clean profiles of most OTR options I've run into. I'm not looking for a 'roomier' jacket, but rather for a jacket that 1) uses a little shoulder extension / waist suppression to give the illusion of shape, and 2) moves a little more elegantly than slimmer offerings. If that's not "drape," I'm sorry for the confusion! Can you suggest anything?

Sure. What's your price range?

 

[king_of_cups]

Sure. What's your price range?

1k USD max (hopefully for three pieces)

 

[TheShetlandSweater]

1k USD max (hopefully for three pieces)

That's tough (esp. for a 3 piece). The Armoury's model 3 has slightly extended shoulders and a fuller chest, especially if you size up. That being said, it's a bit outside your price range unless you look at new old stock at DROP93.

There's plenty of roomier Neapolitan stuff for cheaper and I find it flattering for men with a fuller build, but the shoulders won't be extended at all.

 

[dieworkwear]

You may have a point, because I'm still new to the concept of drape! As someone who has more of a rectangular-shaped body, I'm not really helped by the ultra-slim/ultra-clean profiles of most OTR options I've run into. I'm not looking for a 'roomier' jacket, but rather for a jacket that 1) uses a little shoulder extension / waist suppression to give the illusion of shape, and 2) moves a little more elegantly than slimmer offerings. If that's not "drape," I'm sorry for the confusion! Can you suggest anything?

Drape is a style of cutting that results in extra fabric "draping" along the armhole. It was invented by a Dutch-English tailor named Frederick Schlote who noticed that, when he belted up a Guard's coat, it resulted in the chest "puffing out," which he thought looked flattering since it gave the wearer the illusion of a more athletic future. He then incorporated this into a pattern for suits and sport coats, and eventually taught the technique to Per Sheppard, who later co-founded Anderson & Sheppard. The famousness of the cut comes from a few things -- the A&S lineage and the fact that Schlote was the Duke of Windsor's personal tailor. This style was also the progenitor of zoot suits, which became popular in Black and Latino communities in the United States.

Here are some old Anderson & Sheppard coats. Notice how the chest starts to curve outward around the armhole. This is the extra fabric "draping" near the armhole. The style comes from how the pattern is drafted, along with how the chest piece is cut on a bias and inserted into the garment. When worn, this gives the chest a sort of "roundness" and fullness. The effect is easier to see on finer fabrics; less on heavy tweeds.

In Italy, some tailors do something called a swelled chest, which is to say that the chest isn't proper "drape," but it's a little full. Some Italian tailors call this "bounce." For instance, Liverano and Rubinacci both cut their chest a little full. The effect isn't so much that the fabric drapes near the armhole, but the chest is fuller.

Compare the coats above to these chests, which are described as "lean." No fullness. It's just a slim, clean fit.

If you get a ready-to-wear sport coat, there are slim fits that will not fit an athletic figure. Then there are ready-to-wear models such as The Armoury's Model 3, which has a slightly extended shoulder and fuller chest. However, there is very little shaping put into the chest -- it doesn't have the same roundness of a true drape cut. This is because there's very little structure inside.

If you have an athletic figure, the Model 3 will just look like a slim, clean fit on you. If you have a slim figure, it will give you teh appearance of a slightly more athletic figure because of that slightly fuller chest and extended shoulder line. However, neither of these effects are a true drape cut, as you don't have the same shaping that goes into a drape jacket.