Ongoing Bespoke Projects

[classicalthunde]

Look at the shoulders on this suit from Caid in Japan & compare it to the shoulders on the suit from earlier. The shoulders in the former are softer while the shoulders in the latter are built more like a brooks brothers / j press jacket.

Unfortunately, I don’t have any old photos of old j press / brooks. I’m curious about the shoulders on those. And it begs the question: is Caid an Ivy League silhouette or a Japanese interpretation of the old Ivy League silhouette?

I popped into J Press recently, and their MiUSA suits/jackets have a very soft shoulder much closer to the CAID example than the Genuardi one. The J Press MiCAN models have a much more pronounced shoulder. I quite liked the MiUSA Fox Air suit I tried on...

I have an old (probably pre-mid 90s) MiUSA Brooks Brothers doeskin blazer that has very minor padding (maybe just wadding?), but it would also be well short of the Genuardi example

I don't believe that Genuardi defaults to an American-Ivy style by default, although I believe he could/has done a few pieces like that in the past.

 

[jonathanS]

I have an old (probably pre-mid 90s) MiUSA Brooks Brothers doeskin blazer that has very minor padding (maybe just wadding?), but it would also be well short of the Genuardi example

Yes, of course, I think we all presume genuardi is cutting at a much higher level than brooks or j press rtw.

I’d need to see the caid jacket up close to make a more defined opinion about it (or even place an order).

Another datapoint: if you look at jfk’s suits, he has more of a squared off shoulder as well.

 

[classicalthunde]

Yes, of course, I think we all presume genuardi is cutting at a much higher level than brooks or j press rtw

To clarify, the comment wasn't on quality but stylistic choices. I meant the padding/structure of the shoulder itself on the vintage BB blazer is well short of what appears to be the padding/structure in the Genuardi example.

 

[comrade]

Yes, of course, I think we all presume genuardi is cutting at a much higher level than brooks or j press rtw.

I’d need to see the caid jacket up close to make a more defined opinion about it (or even place an order).

Another datapoint: if you look at jfk’s suits, he has more of a squared off shoulder as well.

During his presidency JFK didn't really wear Ivy-style suits. As noted, they had built up shoulders, were 2 button,and ventless. As for Genuardi, the discussion is ill-informed. There is nothing remotely Ivy about it. With those shoulders it could be an American silhouette, of the type that co-existed during the Ivy heyday. My wealthy uncles wore 1960s versions of that cut. My Dad, who shopped at Rogers Peet, Brooks, and Paul Stuart wore Ivy. One of the reasons that i became aware of mens clothing styles at a very early age was the contrast between my tweedy father and the other adult men in a very large family.

 

[jonathanS]

During his presidency JFK didn't really wear Ivy-style suits. As noted, they had built up shoulders, were 2 button,and ventless. As for Genuardi, the discussion is ill-informed. There is nothing remotely Ivy about it. With those shoulders it could be an American silhouette, of the type that co-existed during the Ivy heyday. My wealthy uncles wore 1960s versions of that cut. My Dad, who shopped at Rogers Peet, Brooks, and Paul Stuart wore Ivy. One of the reasons that i became aware of mens clothing styles at a very early age was the contrast between my tweedy father and the other adult men in a very large family.

If I understand correctly, you’re saying there’s a difference between an ivy and American silhouette.

I don’t think it’s a leap to say the genuardi is very brooks brothers / j press. I guess I always just assumed that was what people meant when they said “ivy.”

 

[JohnMRobie]

During his presidency JFK didn't really wear Ivy-style suits. As noted, they had built up shoulders, were 2 button,and ventless. As for Genuardi, the discussion is ill-informed. There is nothing remotely Ivy about it. With those shoulders it could be an American silhouette, of the type that co-existed during the Ivy heyday. My wealthy uncles wore 1960s versions of that cut. My Dad, who shopped at Rogers Peet, Brooks, and Paul Stuart wore Ivy. One of the reasons that i became aware of mens clothing styles at a very early age was the contrast between my tweedy father and the other adult men in a very large family.

The suits JFK wore seem to fit better into the period of a sort of post-Ivy expansion revolt. When downmarket brands started to push Ivy and adopt the style there was a brief period of revolt within a certain segment toward something different that showed up in longer jackets, more english details and more tapered trousers. Details that were only around if you had your clothes made for you. A big reason our family had their "Press man" and then their "Poole man." Of course, as you would expect, when some years went by the large brands made some changes and introduced cuts to try and get closer to the new change and it caught on more.

 

[comrade]

I second this. It's got an American look to it.

Not ! Nothing J Press or BB. Certainly not the Trad BB of 20 years ago.

 

[comrade]

If I understand correctly, you’re saying there’s a difference between an ivy and American silhouette.

I don’t think it’s a leap to say the genuardi is very brooks brothers / j press. I guess I always just assumed that was what people meant when they said “ivy.”

Yes. There is a major difference. Although there are clothes that synthesize the two.

 

[comrade]

The suits JFK wore seem to fit better into the period of a sort of post-Ivy expansion revolt. When downmarket brands started to push Ivy and adopt the style there was a brief period of revolt within a certain segment toward something different that showed up in longer jackets, more english details and more tapered trousers. Details that were only around if you had your clothes made for you. A big reason our family had their "Press man" and then their "Poole man." Of course, as you would expect, when some years went by the large brands made some changes and introduced cuts to try and get closer to the new change and it caught on more.

Except in the more exclusive precincts that your family undoubtedly inhabited, the details you mentioned began to appear on high-end non bespoke clothing after JFK was already dead. With a relatively limited budget, I moved on from pure Ivy by the
late 60s by getting English shirts and more fitted jackets with natural shoulders which Paul Stuart began offering in the mid 60s. And added bonus was that such jackets
were more flattering to my then athletic build. By the 80s I was getting that cut
from Chipp, MTM. Nothing I ever wore or wear remotely looked like the Genuadi example.

 

[jonathanS]

Not ! Nothing J Press or BB. Certainly not the Trad BB of 20 years ago.

I think, I was saying the silhouette reminds me of the modern brooks / j presss silhouette. Perhaps not the old traditional ivy.

The suits JFK wore seem to fit better into the period of a sort of post-Ivy expansion revolt. When downmarket brands started to push Ivy and adopt the style there was a brief period of revolt within a certain segment toward something different that showed up in longer jackets, more english details and more tapered trousers. Details that were only around if you had your clothes made for you. A big reason our family had their "Press man" and then their "Poole man." Of course, as you would expect, when some years went by the large brands made some changes and introduced cuts to try and get closer to the new change and it caught on more.

I remember a story about an old senator thinking jfk’s suit looked good. If I recall correctly, he had it made in Italy. Now that we mention it. i think it was Rome. I can’t remember the details of the story or which senator. It was an old timer for sure.

 

[JohnMRobie]

I think, I was saying the silhouette reminds me of the modern brooks / j presss silhouette. Perhaps not the old traditional ivy.


I remember a story about an old senator thinking jfk’s suit looked good. If I recall correctly, he had it made in Italy. Now that we mention it. i think it was Rome. I can’t remember the details of the story or which senator. It was an old timer for sure.

I’m far from a historian on Ivy, JFK or his style but I thought in addition to Brooks he used a British tailor with an American outpost and the cut was more accommodating to his back brace than the super slim Ivy silhouette. There was also something about firing the tailor for taking credit for the clothes in an interview maybe?

Edit: I was curious so I did a quick google. The Rake says Sam Harris made his English suits and Chipp made his American suits. https://therake.com/stories/setting-the-president

 

[comrade]

I’m far from a historian on Ivy, JFK or his style but I thought in addition to Brooks he used a British tailor with an American outpost and the cut was more accommodating to his back brace than the super slim Ivy silhouette. There was also something about firing the tailor for taking credit for the clothes in an interview maybe?

The owner, and son of the founder of the recently-closed Chipp, Paul Winston,
regularly recounted that JFK got his suits from them. It is likely that JFK got suits
from various makers over the years.

 

[Texasmade]

It is likely that JFK got suits from various makers over the years.

Exactly. Who uses just one tailor? Nobody!

 

[kid1002]

Exactly. Who uses just one tailor? Nobody!

Crispyj

 

[comrade]

Based on these postings and the comments therein,there is a dearth of
knowledge about the Ivy Style. I have the advantage of years and the
circumstance of actually attending an Ivy League University when the style
was still worn by the majority of students. For a crash course on Ivy, I recommend
the forum Ivy Style:

Ivy Style

The Classics Are For Everyone.

www.ivy-style.com

Check out the past issues, especially those from a few years ago, under the
former moderator Christian Chenoworth. There one might come accross some
of my modest contributions.