Official: STAR WARS THREAD. These are the droids you're looking for. **WARNING MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS

[Fueco]

still explains why fans are mad, at least to me

and are we really going to accept the excuse that "he didn't live through what Luke did so he doesn't know what he would have done"?

Yes. He’s not the writer.

My guess is going to be that the dark side is ultimately irresistible.

Something along the lines of the Jedi end up creating the Sith--by pushing so hard to the "good" that it is just unrealistic for everyone to follow along. Things like not allowing them to have families, denying them the ability to feel a full range of human emotions, etc.

If *every* person who is strong in the force is expected to live like a monk, it is no big surprise that some people can't handle it....and only the Sith are welcoming to someone not willing to live like a Jedi. There's nothing in the middle, and it is not like they can take away your force powers if you decide you just don't want to do the whole Jedi thing.

Spoiler

Now, I don't know how Rey's taking the books will play into this. I suppose it depends what is in the books (maybe the books predate the rigidity of the Jedi order so it doesn't matter...)

Before TLJ, I would have suspected that maybe there's a love story brewing and the whole "No Relationships" thing would be a key driver into breaking down the past traditions.

Now that they are setting up a bit of a jealous love triangle, I dunno. Seeing Finn fall for someone else could drive her into study and push her back towards the rigid order. Or it could induce jealousy and tap her into dark side emotions. If this doesn't drag her to the dark side, it could drive home the realization that life ultimately needs to live in a gray area.

Maybe she’ll create Reformed Jedism and that will address some of those issues?

 

[El Argentino]

http://scriptshadow.net/movie-review-the-last-jedi-and-maybe-the-last-star-wars-movie/

Best review that I've found coinciding with my criticisms.

 

[RFX45]

that's gon be my excuse for everything...


he didn't live through what he did...

 

[Jr Mouse]

well its not just his interpretation, it's one of the biggest complaints I've read so far and mostly based of the other films too and his past actions

like how he resisted the dark side before and he should have been stronger but again I am a casual fan who hasn't seen the series hundreds of times to know every little detail but some of them makes sense

I don't even hate this film, I am just fascinated at the disconnect between fans

Yes he resisted the dark side before.

Spoiler

And he resisted it again. Nothing shown in this film is out of character. They go out of their way to explain that it was the briefest of moments brought on by being overwhelmed and shocked at his look at the darkness in Ben. One brief reaction that he recovered from just as quickly because of how strong he is.

Luke didn't give in to the dark side. He didn't even entertain serious thoughts of killing his nephew. He reacted out of intinct for a blink of an eye. Yet the good in him pulled him back.

Again, the film bends over backwards to explain all of this.

 

[Lionel Hutz]

http://scriptshadow.net/movie-review-the-last-jedi-and-maybe-the-last-star-wars-movie/

Best review that I've found coinciding with my criticisms.

pretty spot on. As I watched I thought the movie was disjointed because they had fired the lego movie guys, but I guess the director switch was for the upcoming Han Solo prequel . . . . so the movie was just clunky and disjointed

 

[otc]

I find that review odd...there seems to be some dissonance between what he liked about the movie and what he didn't like. Also, he seems to have a hard-on for JJ Abrams, which is interesting as most of the haters I see also hate on JJ pretty hard. This guy seems to take the opposite view--he really liked what JJ was doing and is mad that Rian shut some of it down.

He also seems to really have wanted the movie to be about Luke...but I think it is pretty clear that this trilogy is about new characters (as were the prequels for the most part, Obi-Wan dies fast, and Darth is not really the same)...although this guy hates most of the new characters anyways. He seems to pretty much completely ignore Poe, which is odd given how much time Rian spent giving him character development.

Spoiler

And the snoke thing....whoop deeee ******* whoooo.

We know as much about snoke as we knew about the emperor before the prequels (and especially more than after just ANH and ESB), and nobody bitched about that. I know super-fans love a backstory they can pick apart, and they would love for one of the fan theories to turn out to be right...but they can save that **** for the EU. I don't think I've seen many non-nerds give a **** that snoke wasn't developed.

It seems refreshing to me that there isn't actually some "Big Baddie" that lords over all 3 movies. We've already done that. For a reviewer who likes to encourage people to take risks, it seems odd that he is begging for snoke to be strung along as some generic "big bad evil leader". Star Wars isn't a comic book super hero movie despite having some super-powers. Lets see them finish out the story with something that is not just some big battle between good and evil (unless you really think ROTJ is the height of trilogy finishers).

 

[hobbes874]

He seems to pretty much completely ignore Poe, which is odd given how much time Rian spent giving him character development.

Poe had character development in this film?

Spoiler

Does Holdo's poorly timed lesson about not being a reckless "flyboy" count as character development? This was honestly one of my biggest complaints about the movie. Why wouldn't she just tell him the fairly logical plan? Just to teach him a lesson? Seems like an inopportune time. Plus this could've prevented the entirely pointless Finn/Rose subplot, which actually directly leads to the deaths of hundreds of resistance. Makes zero sense to me, other than to forward the plot (in a dumb way).

 

[Jr Mouse]

Poe had character development in this film?

Spoiler

Does Holdo's poorly timed lesson about not being a reckless "flyboy" count as character development? This was honestly one of my biggest complaints about the movie. Why wouldn't she just tell him the fairly logical plan? Just to teach him a lesson? Seems like an inopportune time. Plus this could've prevented the entirely pointless Finn/Rose subplot, which actually directly leads to the deaths of hundreds of resistance. Makes zero sense to me, other than to forward the plot (in a dumb way).

Spoiler

Great answer to this I saw:

Real militaries do not work that way. A general will only share plans if they feel like it, in so much as what will be required to complete the plans. This is a good idea, and is further reinforced from a line of dialogue from Rose who mentions she had already stopped 3 other people from ejecting in an escape pod before Fin. IF they had ejected, or if any knew of the plan and managed to get away, and then get captured, the First Order would be able to find out what the real evacuation plan is and stop it.

Also keep in mind that Poe had just been demoted.

 

[otc]

"Alt-Right" group with ridiculous name takes credit for Last Jedi backlash

 

[Jr Mouse]

"Alt-Right" group with ridiculous name takes credit for Last Jedi backlash

I don't know of these guys are to blame or not, but something is clearly up. Despite RT's claims, it's pretty obvious things are not right. The site has too many duplicate worded posts rating the movie extremely low. There are low rating reviews for Stat Wars appearing on The Shape of Water page. It stinks of the use of bots and makes it look like RT is covering their public image instead of being completely upfront.

 

[Graemsay]

http://scriptshadow.net/movie-review-the-last-jedi-and-maybe-the-last-star-wars-movie/

Best review that I've found coinciding with my criticisms.

Spoiler: I'm not convinced by all of ScriptShadow's arguments

Firstly, I think that ScriptShadow is wrong about Admiral Holdo.

Holdo appears to fit into an archetype that we've seen many times before: an officer promoted beyond his or her level of competence, and doesn't have the guts to do the right thing, thereby dooming our heroes to death.

The fact that she knows what she's doing, and Poe's hotheaded style of heroism causes disaster on a couple of occasions, is a subversion of the trope.

I actually liked Holdo's arc in the movie. It's a shame she didn't make it to Episode IX, but she did go out in style.

I also think that Hamill's performance is good because there's a tension between how he (and the audience) saw him, and how Rian Johnson used him.

I don't get the hate for Finn. He's had a more interesting arc than Rey, although his attempt to steal an escape pod felt slightly regressive given the ending of The Force Awakens. Though taking out the battering ram cannon would have been a good way for him to go.

Similarly, why the hate for Rose? She's an everywoman character, and I think is interesting because she's not got any sort of special destiny. (Rey is the Chosen One, Poe has a backstory and is a square jawed hero, Finn is an escaped stormtrooper.)

The choice to have Rey being a nobody was far better than her being the long-lost lovechild of Obi-Wan and Palpatine's daughter, or whatever the fan theories said.

I do agree with ScriptShadow that Rey should have turned to the Dark Side. That would have been a fantastic setup for Episode IX. It wouldn't have made that much of a difference in the last act, as all she did was shoot down a couple of TIE fighters, and move a bunch of rocks.

 

[FlyingMonkey]

The problem is that Star Wars has been hyped by its own fans into something that was way beyond its intrinsic artistic value or the (really rather sketchy) vision of it orginal creator, hype that only increased because of the large time gaps between the films and then the trilogies. There are people (well, men really) who have looked to Star Wars to give meaning to their lives and these people are always going to be disappointed when things don't line up as they had hoped. They think they have 'rights' when it comes to Star Wars. They think they 'own' it. Given these rather communal and collectivist interpretations of a private commercial product, it's ironic therefore that so many of these fans have lightweight regressive right politics, and blame the demise of Star Wars on women, racial others and so on... and even more ironic that the current vehicle for their hatred is Disney, which has long been one of the most conservative cultural producers around.

But Star Wars has also produced Lego Star Wars, which is totally great and in the end my son and I enjoy much more than the films themselves. Lego Star Wars seems to be the best possible outcome of the commercialization that threatened at one point to be the death of the world's best toy.

 

[sinnedk]

Watched TLJ today, loved every minute. I hear people have a lot of mixed feelings about it and yes there are things to pick at. But i took a step back and finally received he movie i wanted. TFA was a rehash of a new hope for this generation IMO, whereas TLJ was the star wars movie i was waiting for. The Luke story was great, Rey/kylo also great, i guess the casino scene was meh but even that i was ok with. I was confused about benecio del toro being in the movie to begin with.

 

[lawyerdad]

Spoiler: I'm not convinced by all of ScriptShadow's arguments

Firstly, I think that ScriptShadow is wrong about Admiral Holdo.

Holdo appears to fit into an archetype that we've seen many times before: an officer promoted beyond his or her level of competence, and doesn't have the guts to do the right thing, thereby dooming our heroes to death.

The fact that she knows what she's doing, and Poe's hotheaded style of heroism causes disaster on a couple of occasions, is a subversion of the trope.

I actually liked Holdo's arc in the movie. It's a shame she didn't make it to Episode IX, but she did go out in style.

I also think that Hamill's performance is good because there's a tension between how he (and the audience) saw him, and how Rian Johnson used him.

I don't get the hate for Finn. He's had a more interesting arc than Rey, although his attempt to steal an escape pod felt slightly regressive given the ending of The Force Awakens. Though taking out the battering ram cannon would have been a good way for him to go.

Similarly, why the hate for Rose? She's an everywoman character, and I think is interesting because she's not got any sort of special destiny. (Rey is the Chosen One, Poe has a backstory and is a square jawed hero, Finn is an escaped stormtrooper.)

The choice to have Rey being a nobody was far better than her being the long-lost lovechild of Obi-Wan and Palpatine's daughter, or whatever the fan theories said.

I do agree with ScriptShadow that Rey should have turned to the Dark Side. That would have been a fantastic setup for Episode IX. It wouldn't have made that much of a difference in the last act, as all she did was shoot down a couple of TIE fighters, and move a bunch of rocks.

Hate for Rose is because the pudgy Asian woman as hero doesn’t mesh with the yellow fever Asian chick stereotype so many of the incel fanbois have.

 

[Ataturk]

People don't like Rose because there were already two throwaway characters dragging out the runtime with nothing to do.

So many quotas, so few minutes of screen time!