Official: STAR WARS THREAD. These are the droids you're looking for. **WARNING MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS

[lawyerdad]



I would also point out that the "Kylo needs to complete his training" BS is from a single throw-away line in the movie, and not how Kylo actually appears throughout the movie.

At least you have to give JJ and company credit for recognizing how bad this aspect of the movie was before it was released instead of after.
I am not sure whether Luke does it because he thinks he's won and that the emperor isn't a threat, or because he's heeding Yoda's advice and recognizes that it'd be futile to try to fight the emperor. But did he plan to let the emperor zap him so Vader would come around? I doubt it.

I don't really disagree with this, but just for the sake of discussion I'll note that a recurring theme in the storyline could be seen as "you can only really win by ceasing to try to win" or some such zen koan bullshit (cf. Kenobi v. Vader, Solo v. Emo Vader, etc.)

[VIDEO][/VIDEO]

Then I am a Jedi. - Nope, must confront Vader first.

[VIDEO] [/VIDEO]

 

[ken]



I'm left wondering if he throws away the saber towards the Emperor instead in an appeal to his father's feelings, not because he wouldn't stand a chance. I've always taken it as Luke surrenders himself to the Emperor in an effort to redeem his father, but I could be wrong on that.

I always thought it was just a refusal to join the dark side. Killing Vader meant turning to the dark side, which is why Palpatine was pushing him to do it, and Luke refused. Throwing the light saber away was just kind of an exclamation point.

 

[Ataturk]



[VIDEO][/VIDEO]

That video is very interesting, but I don't have time to watch the whole thing. Is there a transcript of the deleted lines?

 

[Reggs]



So Luke is "fully trained" then midway through ROTJ? He's a full-fledged Jedi Knight? Barring non-canon Shadows of the Empire, we're to assume Luke is back and training on Dagobah for 1.5 years between ESB and ROTJ?

Agree re: Leia, completely.

Wasn't there a book about this?

In the last movie he shows up with the green lightsaber that he constructed, which I think is one of the final things you do in order to become a Jedi. That's why Darth Vader was so quick to pick up on the new lightsaber.

Not that it answers any questions about Luke, but the N64 game Shadows of the Empire was one of my favorite games and it took place between eps V and VI.

 

[wojt]

we don't know but movie makes it obvious his skill and power increased
- uses force choke on guards (haven't used that before)
- force trick on jabba adviser and jabba (haven't used that before)
- constructed new light saber

ps. no reason to believe he has seen yoda before ROTJ since there would be no reason for him to wait whole year before asking if Vader was his father, so most likely he practised alone

 

[otc]

Let us not forget that in ANH, luke takes his 15 minutes of jedi training and:

Flys an X-wing in a zero gravity environment having previously only had experience piloting an airspeeder in planetary gravity.
Not to mention that this fighter has a full military grade weapons loadout while his T16 had the equivalent of a hunting rifle attached.

Flys that xwing at the universe's most advanced battle station. It may be vulnerable to small vehicles, but it is still equipped with numerous defensive turrets and squadrons of tie fighters (including one piloted by Vader who has been shown to actually be an adept pilot and even has his own custom ride).

Outflies all of the imperial pilots and gunners in his unfamiliar craft (something his elite rebel pilot compatriots have trouble doing) and then nails the bullseye with his targeting computer turned off.

Granted, Rey also has her own over-zealous piloting scene, but its not like this all of this is really that big of a stretch considering the rest of the star ward universe.

I mean, lets not even talk about anakin's singlehanded defeat of the droid army from his fighter. At least Luke knew how to fly--Anakin only drove pod racers which hover at a fixed altitude.

 

[Ataturk]

Let us not forget that none of that was actually in the movie. All you see is a space ship or plane of some sort in Luke's hanger, that he plays with a model of it, talks about what a great pilot he is, it's mentioned that his father was "the best in the galaxy" or something.

And then despite all that, Luke doesn't actually accord himself well in the battle. He nearly crashes on his first pass, he rushes to protect his friend and shoots down exactly one enemy fighter before being nearly killed himself. His plan for the trench run fails either because he underestimates how fast the tie fighters are, or, more likely, he under estimates the pilots he's up against and thinks they won't be able to follow him at full speed. He's easily out flown by Vader and is nearly shot down before either of the two pilots who'd tried before him. He only survives because he abandons the plan AND is saved at the last second by his friend.

Then he makes the final shot through a combination of the one trick he learned earlier in the movie (during an undetermined time he spends with Kenobi during the trip, not 15 minutes) and marksmanship, which is something frontiersmen and rural people have been known for in the real world for as long as there have been guns.

It doesn't compare to the horseshit of the new movie.

 

[lawyerdad]

Buzzfeed-style headline:

ATATURK DECLARES ANH "DOESN'T COMPARE" TO JJ ABRAMS REBOOT!

 

[wojt]



Flys an X-wing in a zero gravity environment having previously only had experience piloting an airspeeder in planetary gravity.
Not to mention that this fighter has a full military grade weapons loadout while his T16 had the equivalent of a hunting rifle attached.

"Luke's the best pilot in the outer rim territories"... and he was about to die and was saved by Wedge
look, he is good pilot for same reason Anakin was good pod racer and pilot

too bad this scene wasn't included.

[VIDEO][/VIDEO]

Outflies all of the imperial pilots and gunners in his unfamiliar craft (something his elite rebel pilot compatriots have trouble doing) and then nails the bullseye with his targeting computer turned off.

How many tie-fighters he shot down, one, two?? That's not too OP for someone who is supposedly a great pilot and has a force potential on par with uncut vader

movie hiunted million times he is a good pilot, loves flying and has a good aim + force. he shot down like 2 planes tops and was saved twice, you make no sense

 

[Ataturk]

[VIDEO]
[/VIDEO]

Ten? The JJ Abrams movie is like a cartoon.

 

[otc]



"Luke's the best pilot in the outer rim territories"... and he was about to die and was saved by Wedge
look, he is good pilot for same reason Anakin was good pod racer and pilot

What? He clearly says "hottest bush pilot this side of mos eisley" and then speaks diminutively about the T16s.

Dude went from flying a Cessna to flying the space shuttle.

I'm not bothered by it, but lets not pretend that it wasn't movie magic that put him in the pilot seat to begin with. Sure he was saved by Han and the others...but how is that any different from Rey being so conveniently helped by a bowcaster to the stomach and a few rounds against a strong male stormtrooper to wear him down before he faced her?

There are many better things to be bothered by in the film (like pretty much everything about death star 3), but they don't involve sexism so we just say "well, that's movies" and move along.

 

[wojt]

"Luke's the best pilot in the outer rim territories"... and he was about to die and was saved by Wedge
look, he is good pilot for same reason Anakin was good pod racer and pilot

What? He clearly says "hottest bush pilot this side of mos eisley" and then speaks diminutively about the T16s.

Dude went from flying a Cessna to flying the space shuttle.

I'm not bothered by it, but lets not pretend that it wasn't movie magic that put him in the pilot seat to begin with. Sure he was saved by Han and the others...but how is that any different from Rey being so conveniently helped by a bowcaster to the stomach and a few rounds against a strong male stormtrooper to wear him down before he faced her?

There are many better things to be bothered by in the film (like pretty much everything about death star 3), but they don't involve sexism so we just say "well, that's movies" and move along.

in the movie itself Biggs says to Rebel Commander more or less smth like this " Sir, luke is best Bush pilot in outer rim territories"

Cessna comparison is good

but movie did effort to set him up as a capable pilot I have no problem with that, wouldn't work irl but is somehow consistent with movies logic

Rey picks up lightsaber first time and beat someone who had years of training, that's something completely different Because we saw time and time again in the movies how less trained person gets manhandled each and every time. See Dooku beating Anakin easily, Dooku beating Obi-wan easily, Vader beating Luke. Having shitloads of force don't help in duel vs forceuser without training. At least that was established in earlier movies.

Also Finn wounds Kylo. A ******* janitor, who for all we know is not force sensitive and gets owned by TR-8R. It just paints Kylo as weak. Rey should destroy him next time they meet based on that fight.

there are a lot of bigger flaws with ANH
- Leia 'this ship is tracked so let's go to our main base'
- deathstar genius level engineering, followed up by DS2 in ROTJ with even bigger hole inside.
- star destroyers shield generators placed in domes above bridge and weakly armored.

 

[Johdus Fanfoozal]

Perhaps Rey did have training?

 

[wojt]



Perhaps Rey did have training?

that would tie up some lose ends, if she was trained as kid but doesn't remember for some reason

 

[El Argentino]



Perhaps Rey did have training?

I think this is the assumption we're all supposed to make. Not latent abilities per se, just untapped for years.