Ny Planning On Opening New Law Schools!

[haganah]

I was being serious. I thought Brooklyn, Fordham, and Cardozo all sent people to big law because they were in ny. I also had a few friends at Brooklyn who went for free...one of them only for one year because then they made him pay because he goofed up on his grades I think.

Personally, I think this isn't a bad thing. Those that want to go to law school, will do so. If they won't qualify to be great lawyers, then they'll end up falling out because they can't get the jobs they want. At the end of the day, the market determines things like that and it's fine. Also, I think there are a lot of people that want to go to law school and not be lawyers (ie all the law enforcement people that go to st. johns) so is it really fair to deny them that?

Plus Bing really should be a full university and needs to learn to compete with other big state schools for students.

Originally Posted by samblau

I can't tell if you are being serious but will reply anyway...

Top 10-15% can walk in to big firms...a few more with connections, tech/language skils, diversity hires and a very few might just luck out. Even if that adds another 10% you are looking at 25% max.

Brooklyn gives out a fair amount of money but it is often times tied directly to your class ranking/GPA, like a lot of other schools. Therefore, by default, a lot of financial aid is rescinded and most students stay the course rather than waste the one year.

In my case I was offered a rather large fellowship (non-revocable) by Villanova Law that would have paid for more than 1/3 of my total law school outlay. Upon hearing this Brooklyn invited me to speak to one of their admission officers (who is no longer at the school) and I then spoke to the dean of admissions.

They explained to me the benefits of going to school in NY and responded to all of my questions in a positive manner re: journal policies (at Villanova they have several journals and anyone who wants the experience can get a position). More importantly they told me that with my experience (a whopping few months as a paralegal for NYC Law Dept.) that I should expect to have a much easier time finding a good job out of Brooklyn Law than Villanova.

Lastly, "tuition rates are subject to change" according to a first year memo issued in 2004 with my welcome kit. My 2nd and 3rd years wound up costing me a combined $14,000 more than I originally anticipated. Tuition is now $39.600 and they estimate that total costs per year are $60k.

As of now I personally have no problems paying off my loans. I worked during law school and I made money on eBay that I was fortunate enough to invest somewhat wisely. I am upset that I need to pay for my education out of savings but I do realize that with a few years experience I can potentially earn closer to what first years at large firms make without giving up my entire life.

I think I have veered off topic...the original point I hoped to make was that, given the current glut of new attorneys and corresponding lack of work their shouldn't be a push to open up new law schools. Perhaps certain underserved regions could add new schools, but not NY. As for my comment regarding equal access to the law...it should be incumbent upon all attorneys to undertake a certain amount of pro bono/public interest work. This maxim is included in the ABA Model Rules but is not an enforceable law. I readily admit that I want to make enough money to live a nice lifestyle but also have certain ideals that I currently struggle to maintain. At this point I would go work for the most evil law firm out there for the big money... I am not necessarily proud of it...and I like to think that once I paid off my loans and had banked a little money that I could segway into a more beneficial role. I realize these are the product of my liberal leanings and youth...I don't want to look back and see that the golden handcuffs ruled my life....perhaps this is common in all professions and I am just coming to terms with it.

 

[Saltwater Wrangler]

Law schools are becoming more and more business and service providers than actual educational facilities. The school I attended would literally accept a few more students if they needed to supplement a budget for a new project (such as a new roof). The more service-orientated law schools become, the worse it is for the students...

 

[sygyzy]

Originally Posted by mafoofan

What does that really mean, and what justifies the claim? Public interest law is inherently low paying and legal education is inherently expensive. Even if you are right, and tuition at some schools is artificially high in some way, I suspect that the 'true' cost of education will still prohibit public interest law as an option for most students. This really shouldn't surprise, as jobs in any sector that do not serve private interests tend to pay less. Anyway, public interest jobs are actually relatively few and fairly selective to begin with.

Frankly, I find all this talk about law schools 'tricking' students into attending and paying tuition to be a little silly. Anybody can do 15 minutes of Google research to figure out hiring statistics and salary averages. It should be readily apparent that the high-paying, loan-erasing jobs at big firms are rare and don't characterize the opportunities available for most law students.

While it is true that law school can be extremely expensive, it is not necessarily as expensive as you say, and the expense is very predictable. Anybody applying to law schools can find out how many 1L and 2L students get summer associate positions and how many are employed at graduation. Those summer jobs secure future employment and can pay for a huge portion of your tuition. Moreover, many firms hire grads before their bar results are in. It's just a matter of finding out whether these firms hire at your school.


While I think most of us would agree that people can and should do as much research as they can before attending a school, you don't think it's misleading for an educational institute to make these wild claims of practically assured post-graduation jobs and salaries? A local design/art school called Brooks was sued (may be still in litigation) over a similar thing. All their students were told that "most grads get hired within x months and make y money."

A quick analogy I could think of would be you buy a car that is advertised to have a 5 year warranty. When you finally have trouble in year 4, you find out they aren't really honoring the warranty past 3 years. You look it up on google and find many other similar experiences. Should you haev been expected to do some research prior to buying the car? Perhaps search for "Does Nissan tell the truth and honor their warranties?"

 

[ComboOrgan]

Originally Posted by Saltwater Wrangler

Law schools are becoming more and more business and service providers than actual educational facilities. The school I attended would literally accept a few more students if they needed to supplement a budget for a new project (such as a new roof). The more service-orientated law schools become, the worse it is for the students...

This is an interesting topic to me.

I wonder about the degree to which law and business schools at large universities bankroll the less profitable departments.

 

[M Stanfield]

Originally Posted by Saltwater Wrangler

Law schools are becoming more and more business and service providers than actual educational facilities. The school I attended would literally accept a few more students if they needed to supplement a budget for a new project (such as a new roof). The more service-orientated law schools become, the worse it is for the students...

I'm not sure about law schools, although it is certainlyl starting to sound that way. In my personal experience, business schools have always been more sketchy. Locally, there is UT Dallas and SMU, both with business schools. I've talked to many people that got their MBAs at these joints, and I've come to the conclusion that they're just jokes no better than by-mail diploma mills. I don't even think they reject anybody as long as you can pay.

 

[Lafont]

I was an Art History grad student at SUNY Binghamton (now Binghamton University) and Binghamton wasn't an unattractive place in the least. Very progressive urban renewal program going on, with the downtown being transformed into a somewhat dramatic conservative business dress. Extremely picturesque hills in the distance in many directions.

 

[Connemara]

Originally Posted by Lafont

I was an Art History grad student at SUNY Binghamton (now Binghamton University) and Binghamton wasn't an unattractive place in the least. Very progressive urban renewal program going on, with the downtown being transformed into a somewhat dramatic conservative business dress. Extremely picturesque hills in the distance in many directions.
Maybe you haven't been back, but Binghamton of the 21st century is a dump. Like all of Western New York it is an economic disaster.

 

[ComboOrgan]

Originally Posted by Connemara

Maybe you haven't been back, but Binghamton of the 21st century is a dump. Like all of Western New York it is an economic disaster.

Binghamton isn't in Western NY.

I do agree that it is a fairly unexciting city

 

[Connemara]

Here's an article from today's Albany Times Union about the opening of new law schools. The state has committed $50 million already? Such a waste. http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories...storyID=705217

Yes, argue some of the established players in a state that already has 15 law schools and the nation's largest population of lawyers -- 150,000. The criticism is especially sharp in Albany, whose hotels will bustle this month with the summer ritual of thousands of graduates in town for the bar exam. Here's the critics' case coming out of Albany and SUNY Buffalo's law schools: The field is saturated, with 9,267 new lawyers admitted in the state last year but only 9,260 new jobs for lawyers expected over the next six years. Law school applications are declining nationally. The number of high school graduates is projected to shrink. More schools means accepting weaker students. Terrible. Silly. Irrational. These are the labels that E. Stewart Jones, chairman of the board of trustees at Albany Law School, used to describe the plan. The Troy attorney called the situation a "political boondoggle" driven by ego and self-aggrandizement and lawmakers seeking to garner favor with constituents. "This is an age-old game where people take state money -- government funding -- and create monuments that are not necessary," Jones said.