Negotiating an entry level salary

[FLMountainMan]

Originally Posted by captainmo

My aunt suggested the extra vacation time, and 401 k thing. I thought they were a little odd. Is that something that would be used in a more experienced position?

It's rare that you can get that sort of thing, as many companies (especially larger ones, and pretty much any government) have rigid bureaucracies regarding their benefit packages. It's much easier for the person hiring you to get a small increase in the salary offer than to haggle with the HR hacks to alter the system for you.

 

[Teacher]

Think of it this way: you have no direct, full-time experience in this field (I'm assuming).

Now, I'm not insulting you at all, so don't feel bad. But it's how they see you. The thing is, an education is only a starting point. Lots of professors/departments give out LOTS of very high grades; it makes them look good. And even if you were an outstanding student -- and you may well have been -- experience trumps education. They want someone they can train and work with, not someone who took a particular class.

These people obviously saw something in you they wanted to work with, and that's good. But without a fair amount of otj experience, you really don't have a negotiating chip. As others have mentioned, try to get a little more money out of them (I'd be surprised if they didn't go up a little), then get the experience and build a solid relationship and reputation. Work hard and produce good work, and do it on time. You'll be rewarded for it later.

Oh, and good luck! Please report back what happened.

 

[captainmo]

One last question - do I ask the hiring manager or the person from HR? My interview consisted of some time talking to the HR individual, the head of the engineering department, and 3 managers under him, who each have 2-3 people under them at the level I'll be.

Obviously, they all had some say in the decision, but I'm not sure where the decision about pay lays.

 

[whiteslashasian]

This thread makes me glad I got out of Mech E. after 2 years of college....46k is not a lot, but this is a TOUGH market for jobs. I would heed some of the advice above and not ask for vacation/401k which is odd, but rather ask for a $2-3k bump.

However, to the chap who just got into Marketing, don't worry about the dismal starting salaries. One of my roommates started off with ~$40k a year in NYC!!!! and 6 years later is starting to get close six figures after bonuses etc, if not already at that point. However, he's pretty baller at his job so he may be an outlier...

 

[Valor]

One of my biggest regrets is not asking for more money when I started, I'm about 90% sure they would have given me 5k more, but oh well. I'm glad to have a job where I can post on SF all day...

 

[bigbris1]

I wouldn't try asking for more money up front, just take the job, get in & show them what you can do. Make them throw money at you because they don't want to lose you. If they don't, now you have experience and a good reference.

Especially if what they've offered will cover your living expenses . If you're just asking for more money because you think that's what you should get, you will kick yourself hard later. Trust.

 

[AR_Six]

I would suggest that if you want to negotiate, don't haggle - just suggest that the right number be determined by objective, fair criteria - that is, whatever evidence can be gathered about market rates. You don't need a negotiating chip, you can put yourself forward about being perfectly willing to accept their offer if it's fair, but making that determination based on real-world data is not, I don't think, unreasonable. If you choose to ask for a higher salary this is how I would suggest you go about it, rather than putting out an accurate figure. You can even get them to find numbers in other places for situations that they feel are comparable, and just make sure they actually are comparable, and if they're not adjust accordingly.

Fisher had an example like this in Getting to Yes about a car - seller thinks it's worth 8000, buyer makes the typical low starting offer of 5000, seller says both will return the next day with prices for comparable vehicles. Buyer comes back with the same model year car selling for 6700, seller notes it has higher mileage and doesn't have leather interior, and they adjust based on the book value for those things. This takes the adversarial aspect out of it and you don't feel as much like you're playing hardball with someone while trying to get them to hire you. Still a bit of a risk but you be the judge as to whether it's worth it - depends on what other options you think you have.

 

[unjung]

fredfred's advice was really good.

 

[Trompe le Monde]

1) unless you have back up plans, take the job
2) if its a mid to large corporation, chances are close to nil for negotiation on 401k; it is corporate-standardized. as a mid-career hire you may negotiate for vacation (by changing your pre-hire seniority classification), but it doesnt apply in your case. your only wiggle room is salary. and unless its a government job or something, there should be wiggle room... now whether you get it due to other competing applicants is another issue.
3) its low, but its not bad, what you should be considering is (a) quality of job (b) opportunities for growth (c) and most importantly experience, which you can leverage for a new job years down the line

so if the job is absolutely a bore with no room for advancement and you cant learn much... for 45k... then its probably best to pass it up for something else down the road

 

[Don Carlos]

+10 to any and all "if you have no alternatives, take the job" and "in this economy, take the job" advice posted in this threak.

Depending on the industry, it's pretty rare for many companies even to be willing to negotiate a starting salary. And in this job market, they have all the power. So you're pretty much SOL there. Were I in your shoes, I'd just suck it up, accept the job at the salary level you were offered, and cultivate a network / do a great job in your position. You cultivate the network both to develop professional contacts and to sew the seeds of future exit options, should you decide you need them. And you perform well at your job because, well, that should be obvious.

You're in a better position to negotiate an offer when you have some legitimate experience under your belt and are a proven performer. That can't happen right out of school, unfortunately, unless you were summa *** laude at Harvard or something. Also, generally speaking, you're in a better position to negotiate when you have multiple options. For example: Company X is offering you $46k, and Company Y is offering you $50k. It's fine to see if X will match Y in such a case, because you have precedent. (Just don't attempt to start a "bidding war" or go back and forth to try to raise the stakes, because that will get you a big, fat middle finger from X and Y).

 

[Henry Boogers]

I just wanted to clarify a thought in case it's not abundantly clear to the OP or anyone in his shoes.....

- Asking for a small increase and stating that you feel very positive about taking the position at that compensation level = good

- Asking for a significant increase for ANY reason at this stage = bad

Even if the employer really wants to hire you, no company wishes to bring in a person whom they beleive will be immediately disgruntled and spending half of their day searching online for a better job.

 

[captainmo]

Thanks for all of the advice.

I just called, and said something along the lines of this sounds like a great position, I enjoyed meeting with all of the product managers, and think I would enjoy working with them. However, the salary is a little lower than what I was hoping for, is there anyway I could start at 48 thousand.

She said no, that it's a fixed offer that everybody for that position starts at, so I accepted the offer at 46k.

She then said it's good I did that, and you're supposed to negotiate salaries with job offers.

 

[CDFS]

^Sucker!

 

[FLMountainMan]

Originally Posted by captainmo

Thanks for all of the advice.

I just called, and said something along the lines of this sounds like a great position, I enjoyed meeting with all of the product managers, and think I would enjoy working with them. However, the salary is a little lower than what I was hoping for, is there anyway I could start at 48 thousand.

She said no, that it's a fixed offer that everybody for that position starts at, so I accepted the offer at 46k.

She then said it's good I did that, and you're supposed to negotiate salaries with job offers.

Good luck in the new job!

 

[Teacher]

Originally Posted by captainmo

Thanks for all of the advice.

I just called, and said something along the lines of this sounds like a great position, I enjoyed meeting with all of the product managers, and think I would enjoy working with them. However, the salary is a little lower than what I was hoping for, is there anyway I could start at 48 thousand.

She said no, that it's a fixed offer that everybody for that position starts at, so I accepted the offer at 46k.

She then said it's good I did that, and you're supposed to negotiate salaries with job offers.

Good luck! You're just starting out, so work hard and be patient.