Mod to Suedehead

[Ed Vaughan]



http://www.bbc.co.uk/learningzone/clips/skinheads-and-greasers/12586.html

Have we had this?

I hadn't seen it , Bunty - nice find.

 

[Man-of-Mystery]



A question for the originals. i've red several times that Jean Jacques Burnel, born 1952, notorious bassist (The Stranglers), French but raised in England, was in his youth in the early seventies a Skinhead. Heard of that before?

Yep, heard that. http://www.allmusic.com/artist/jean-jacques-burnel-mn0000224913

 

[Man-of-Mystery]



Les "minets"(that mean kitties) started early seventies and last to the early eighties. The first ones could be the equivalent of mods in France. They used to go in the Drugstore on the Champs élysées, spent all treir money on clothes and shoes, try to date the loveliest girls, had quite long hairs but hated hippies. They were the precursors. After that, like with all fashion, it became mainstream, and every teenager with a decent pair of strides, a nice shirt, and Sebago loafers were called "minet". The originals one were interesting, not the others  imo. There is a very good french movie about them: "La bande du drugstore" 

M. L'Inspecteur, you probably recall my saying that the only time I ever tried to pick a fight was when some 'Français de Juillet' were flirting with 'our' girls at the Savoy Rooms in Catford. I knew back then that the way to insult a 'minet' was to imitate a cat's miaow, and that's what I did.

Hell of a thing for a francophile and French-speaker to do, but I was just lost my rag at one who was trying it on with MY girl.

Oh les beaux jours, hein?

 

[Man-of-Mystery]



Maybe we need to discuss some aspect we have not yet.There was a brief discussion about racism and bigotry (which we try to ignore,tryin to keep politics out) I do think a discussion about racism is important to the book.Must dispel the myths and misconceptions,Lasttye had a good quote about the west indian community's contribution to British life.It said everything we need to say about the subject.My desire for the book is more stories involving the families of the "originals" and their approval or disapproval.I think stories about families makes the story more relatable to non skinheads who are interested in the subject.

Taken care of.

 

[Clouseau]

M. L'Inspecteur, you probably recall my saying that the only time I ever tried to pick a fight was when some 'Français de Juillet' were flirting with 'our' girls at the Savoy Rooms in Catford. I knew back then that the way to insult a 'minet' was to imitate a cat's miaow, and that's what I did.

Hell of a thing for a francophile and French-speaker to do, but I was just lost my rag at one who was trying it on with MY girl.

Oh les beaux jours, hein?

Les beaux jours, en effet...
When i was a teenager, i must say i didn't like the Minets at all... But they were not the originals of the style, pale imitations, but some of them had success with girl... I was a liitle jealous, maybe ?
Anyway MoM, thanks to your story with the "Français de Juillet", we are not too off topic!...

About JJ, he must have been an original. After all he's four years older than paul Weller, who claims to have been a suedehead...

 

[Mr Knightley]

With reference to the French connection, which I think is on topic (part of the overall context) I'm not sure if I have flagged up this excellent essay before. It's written by our Dutch correspondent Alex Roest:

http://www.filmnoirbuff.com/article/the-french-cut

He places the first Minets a little earlier.

 

[Mr Knightley]

Quote:
Yes, good points. I have been feeling a bit grumpy lately. But it doesn't do any harm to reconsider our approach every now and then. One aspect that we haven't really bottomed out, I feel, is just how and when things started to move from Mod to Skinhead and then on again to suedehead. How does that shift start? Who drives it? You know I am fascinated by that period from 1966 (the end of the Original Modernists) up to 1968 just before the term skinhead was first coined in the press. A period of great experimentation and mistakes too I recall. Colin I know shares a keen interest in this evolutionary time. I belong to the Original Modernists group on FB and have been hoping to glean something from them but not so far….In fact they all seem to think the world stopped in 1966.

 

[Clouseau]

With reference to the French connection, which I think is on topic (part of the overall context) I'm not sure if I have flagged up this excellent essay before. It's written by our Dutch correspondent Alex Roest: http://www.filmnoirbuff.com/article/the-french-cut He places the first Minets a little earlier.

Yes, i think he's right, they appeared (Minets) before the events of May '68. Sorry, i sometimes say early seventies but mean late sixties: because in France when we speak of the seventies ("années 70"), we speak of a period roughly from 1965 to 1975, when we evoke the eighties, it' from 1975 to 1985, etc... One of the numerous differences between English & French, i suppose...

 

[Clouseau]

I've just red the Alex Roest essay. very interesting, but i think, except for Shetland and knitwear, that he over estimates the use of English brands by The "Minets". It was rather American brands or French brands. For shoes for example, they prefered Weston... Church's at the time would have been the shoes worn by their fathers.
Another thing that they like was sports car. They were indeed more "Bourgeois" than the mods, and prefered English (or Italian) sports car rather than vespas or Lambrettas...

 

[Gsvs5]

In fact they all seem to think the world stopped in 1966.

It did......we won the World Cup

 

[Man-of-Mystery]



Les beaux jours, en effet...
When i was a teenager, i must say i didn't like the Minets at all... But they were not the originals of the style, pale imitations, but some of them had success with girl... I was a liitle jealous, maybe ?
Anyway MoM, thanks to your story with the "Français de Juillet", we are not too off topic!...

At other times, knowing a bit of French meant that I could smooth things over when there was a misunderstanding between French and English lads, so I probably stopped more fights than I started!

 

[Sirryacus]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/learningzone/clips/skinheads-and-greasers/12586.html

Have we had this?

I couldn't get this one to load are these Hells Angels associated with the United States Outlaw Motorcycle Club as in are they a branch of it?

Yes, good points. I have been feeling a bit grumpy lately. But it doesn't do any harm to reconsider our approach every now and then.One aspect that we haven't really bottomed out, I feel, is just how and when things started to move from Mod to Skinhead and then on again to suedehead. How does that shift start? Who drives it? You know I am fascinated by that period from 1966 (the end of the Original Modernists) up to 1968 just before the term skinhead was first coined in the press. A period of great experimentation and mistakes too I recall. Colin I know shares a keen interest in this evolutionary time. I belong to the Original Modernists group on FB and have been hoping to glean something from them but not so far….In fact they all seem to think the world stopped in 1966.

You know that is sort of where I was trying to go and its easy to get off topic in doing so and I'm afraid I'm one of the biggest culrpits of going off topic, even eras after that are of interest to me but I don't wanna stray too off topic I am just curious how things progressed all the way up until 1980 honestly I know most of you were married with families but there had to be some originals still floating from scene to scene, I suppose I can go into private messages to keep the discussion out of here if someone would be kind enough to answer.


Have we ever touched on the topic of general age of an original skinhead? would any have been born as early at 1945 for example?

 

[Alex Roest]



One aspect that we haven't really bottomed out, I feel, is just how and when things started to move from Mod to Skinhead and then on again to suedehead. How does that shift start? Who drives it? You know I am fascinated by that period from 1966 (the end of the Original Modernists) up to 1968 just before the term skinhead was first coined in the press. A period of great experimentation and mistakes too I recall. Colin I know shares a keen interest in this evolutionary time.

As I've told John I'm toying with the idea of doing a separate thing on said topic for my own amusement (which could probably be used for 'Walk Proud' as well?). I'll keep in touch...

 

[roytonboy]

I couldn't get this one to load are these Hells Angels associated with the United States Outlaw Motorcycle Club as in are they a branch of it?


You know that is sort of where I was trying to go and its easy to get off topic in doing so and I'm afraid I'm one of the biggest culrpits of going off topic, even eras after that are of interest to me but I don't wanna stray too off topic I am just curious how things progressed all the way up until 1980 honestly I know most of you were married with families but there had to be some originals still floating from scene to scene, I suppose I can go into private messages to keep the discussion out of here if someone would be kind enough to answer.


Have we ever touched on the topic of general age of an original skinhead? would any have been born as early at 1945 for example?

Sirryacus - Someone born in 1945 would have been 15 in 1960, 18 by 1963 so could have been one of the very early original Mods. They would certainly have been too old to be a Skinhead.

The overwhelming majority of skinheads were in the 14-18 age group. This was true in 1968/69 during the transition from Mod to Skinhead and was still the case in 1971/72 when the dress style across the country had become what we recognise as Suedehead. I became a Skinhead in 1969 when I was 14. I made a conscious decision to go and get a crop and adopt more of the skinhead wardrobe than I had previously been wearing. I wanted to become a 'Skinhead'. Alternatively, I knew lads who were 3-4 years older than me who had been Mods but who evolved into skinheads during 1968/69. They probably didn't think "I'll become a Skinhead now", it was just that their look gradually changed and their hair gradually became shorter until they were what we now recognise as Skinheads. This only happened to some of them, others grew their hair and distanced themselves from the Skinhead look. They had all originally been regarded as 'Mods' though.

On a personal note, I was 'of the style' right through and even as late as 1973 was still going to football matches in Doc. Martens, Parallels, Denims etc. (There's a photo of Birmingham Boot Boys somewhere on this thread that captures the look), even returning to short hair after growing it for a while BUT on my 19th birthday I put a parting in my hair, hung up my 'Bovver Boots' and started to buy the fashionable clothes of the day - I considered myself too old for terrace fashion and found myself in a completely different social environment.

What kept some originals on the scene were:

1) Scooter clubs - still active to this day. I still occasionally see someone of about my age on a scooter and still wearing some elements of the style. Some younger scooter owners have adopted some aspects of the style.

2) The 'Northern' Soul scene which gave like minded individuals somewhere to meet and socialise. Not that everyone who is into the Northern Soul scene was originally a Mod or a Skinhead, but some were and it helped to keep a thread of the style alive. At some Northern Soul nights I have seen some Mod/Skinhead/Suedehead revivalists. In most cases they look too young to have been originals but some have gone to a lot of effort and have really nailed the look.

 

[Clouseau]

At other times, knowing a bit of French meant that I could smooth things over when there was a misunderstanding between French and English lads, so I probably stopped more fights than I started!

MoM, your anecdote: "I knew back then that the way to insult a 'minet' was to imitate a cat's miaow, and that's what I did." is very telling. The word "Minet" was kind of an insult, it had gay connotations... The "Minets" prefered to consider themselves as "Playboys". But the name stayed, as "skinhead" who seem(ed) pejorative too, i guess.