Leather Quality and Properties

[chogall]

Sorry, Zapasman, you have shoes made from lifeless leather. Corrected grain is lifeless, impotent, and plastic-like. If you truly need pub shoes, any pair made from waxed or oiled leather will serve you better. Even shell cordovan will be the horse's ass.

Not always.

Pin/scotch/whatever grain leathers are all corrected grain leathers.

The plastic like feeling is from leathers' top coat finish or shoe's finishing.

 

[manasdirge]

Not always.

Pin/scotch/whatever grain leathers are all corrected grain leathers.

The plastic like feeling is from leathers' top coat finish or shoe's finishing.

hmm, that is what box calf means right? calf with no coat is called crust calf?

 

[patrickBOOTH]

There's some distinction between box calf and regular calf. I believe it has to do with the grain, or something, and traditionally it only came in black, but in general leathers have topcoats of some sort. Crust calf is just naked and the only topcoat is whatever wax polish you apply.

 

[ntempleman]

There's a few stories about why box is box, most of them are variations on black calfskin being boarded (which leaves a series of creases) twice at 90 degrees (giving you "boxes" of creases). Similar to the story of so called willow calf being boarded once, imparting a grain reminiscent of a willow tree.

Quite why black box calf was boarded twice, and brown willow only once, I have no idea. Perhaps it helped the dyes set, or something; maybe it showed that the tannery took an extra step in quality, and "box calf" became a shorthand term for the gold standard.

Or perhaps the bloke in the tannery who ran the black calf was just really short, and needed to stand on a box to reach the bench.

 

[The Craftsman]

The boarding of the skin makes the leather more supple and more pliable. Box calf also has a different tanning recipe and all tanneries that produce box calf have their own recipe for Box. The willow pattern, in theory, should give the skin more rigidity compared with box calf.

 

[DWFII]



There's a few stories about why box is box, most of them are variations on black calfskin being boarded (which leaves a series of creases) twice at 90 degrees (giving you "boxes" of creases). Similar to the story of so called willow calf being boarded once, imparting a grain reminiscent of a willow tree.

Quite why black box calf was boarded twice, and brown willow only once, I have no idea. Perhaps it helped the dyes set, or something; maybe it showed that the tannery took an extra step in quality, and "box calf" became a shorthand term for the gold standard.

Or perhaps the bloke in the tannery who ran the black calf was just really short, and needed to stand on a box to reach the bench.

Yeah, this has always been a puzzle to me. When I first got in the Trade I was shown "box" calf that had those creases...faint but definitely there.

But if you look at the Weinheimer box calf, for instance, I don't see any "boxing."

Doesn't seem much different to me than a good French calf except it only comes in black.

I sometimes wonder if anyone knows what box calf is and/or whether it isn't just a catch-all term.

 

[patrickBOOTH]

It is just a high quality chrome tan. I'm pretty sure it's truly lost its original meaning and now it is basically just "high quality calf".

 

[ntempleman]

It's probably safe to assume that there was a difference at some point, and the terms just carried on after the methods changed. Hermès will call any smooth calf box, while over here it's specifically black calf that the term is reserved for. Weinheimer/Freudenberg has never had any "boxing" as far as I'm aware - I think the term predates the use of German leather in the UK by a long, long way.

 

[DWFII]



It is just a high quality chrome tan. I'm pretty sure it's truly lost its original meaning and now it is basically just "high quality calf".

Although usually ...from what I've seen...with an opaque finish.

 

[patrickBOOTH]

Yeah, I'm not a fan of a lot of the finishing on leathers, tbh.

 

[patrickBOOTH]

I actually have this overnight bag with me right now that was advertised as box calf. Here's a closeup of the grain.

 

[shoefan]

As DWF notes, the Weinheimer/Freudenberg box calf is certainly smooth.

This pair was made from the Weinheimer 'box calf.'



I have a small hide that I got from A&A Crack that Tony (?) Crack said was from the old Freudenberg tannery. It is a brown leather and has a decided grain. If/when I can remember, I'll take a pic of it and post it. Not certain whether it would have been sold as box, since it isn't black.

I also recall some story that said the Box leather was referring to leather tanned by a company called Box. However, see here (p.27) for a 1922 letter claiming to have the true background for box leather.
https://books.google.com/books?id=h...9QCZ#v=onepage&q="box leather" origin&f=false

 

[DWFII]

^ Nice looking shoes...

 

[RIDER]



As DWF notes, the Weinheimer/Freudenberg box calf is certainly smooth.

This pair was made from the Weisenheimer 'box calf.'



I have a small hide that I got from A&A Crack that Tony (?) Crack said was from the old Freudenberg tannery. It is a brown leather and has a decided grain. If/when I can remember, I'll take a pic of it and post it. Not certain whether it would have been sold as box, since it isn't black.

I also recall some story that said the Box leather was referring to leather tanned by a company called Box. However, see here (p.27) for a 1922 letter claiming to have the true background for box leather.
https://books.google.com/books?id=h...9QCZ#v=onepage&q="box leather" origin&f=false

Always interesting looking at those old articles - we don't have much of that left in this business.

I had always heard that Haas created Box calf...quick look shows a similar article, dateline 1912, also crediting the Haas Tannery. Interestingly, they also claimed credit for a tannage called 'White Calf'. Perhaps they were all cousins.

One thing I do know is that it is very difficult - has been for quite a few years - to get good deliveries of black calf......except from - yup, Haas. Have to pay up for it, but it's the most reliable.

 

[eljimberino]

Is it more correct to say leather absorbs moisture, rather than leather breathes?