Leather Quality and Properties

[chogall]

Well, hope doesn't enter into it.

Anymore than hoping you might actually want to understand what I'm saying and have said. Just in order to have an intelligent conversation, aye?

But although hope springs eternal, I don't think I have either the patience or the time to try to interrupt a soliloquy.

I am surprised that you are willing to discredit, or refusing to acknowledge, such prestigious award for master artisans and their related work for your pursuit of intellectual orgasm.

 

[chogall]

+1.

This is why it's "bespoke".

Orthotics shoemakers are a whole different trade than bespoke shoemakers.

 

[traverscao]

Orthotics shoemakers are a whole different trade than bespoke shoemakers.

If a machine is going to replicate my foot, how the **** is it anything "bespoke"?

In one sense or another, Orthotic shoemakers are also bespoke shoemakers, as long as there is such procedure as directly inspect, measure, and getting to know the client's feet.

 

[chogall]

If a machine is going to replicate my foot, how the **** is it anything "bespoke"?

In one sense or another, Orthotic shoemakers are also bespoke shoemakers, as long as there is such procedure as directly inspect, measure, and getting to know the client's feet.

Bespoke doesnt mean its handmade. Most bespoke shoe clickers/patternmakers will use machine to replicate the pattern you desire. There's nothing wrong with machines.

Orthotics shoemakers are trained differently than bespoke shoemakers. They are licensed, certified, and trained differently.

 

[traverscao]

Bespoke doesnt mean its handmade. Most bespoke shoe clickers/patternmakers will use machine to replicate the pattern you desire. There's nothing wrong with machines.

Orthotics shoemakers are trained differently than bespoke shoemakers. They are licensed, certified, and trained differently.

If it's goodyear welted is it bespoke anymore? If the clickers are not clicking but pressing patterns out of a press, is it bespoke?

They weren't train anymore differently, other than the certified fact that they are more professional in dealing with abnormal footing issues, and in such regards, are more advanced in evaluation of the foot, not that they are trained any differently. Apart from the foot and the formation of the insole, everything else should remain pretty much the same.

 

[traverscao]

Back to leather's topic, people.

Anyone knows any kind of leather that comes from carnivorous animals beside crocs and gators?

 

[chogall]

If it's goodyear welted is it bespoke anymore? If the clickers are not clicking but pressing patterns out of a press, is it bespoke?

They weren't train anymore differently, other than the certified fact that they are more professional in dealing with abnormal footing issues, and in such regards, are more advanced in evaluation of the foot, not that they are trained any differently. Apart from the foot and the formation of the insole, everything else should remain pretty much the same.

Why not? If you bespeak a pair of goodyear welted shoes, with your own exact measurement, laser cut using pattern you've bespoken, then why is it not bespoke?

How do you know they are trained the same?!?!? Bespoke shoemakers I talked to dont work with orthotics shoes as those are medical assistance devices.

 

[traverscao]

Why not? If you bespeak a pair of goodyear welted shoes, with your own exact measurement, laser cut using pattern you've bespoken, then why is it not bespoke?

How do you know they are trained the same?!?!? Bespoke shoemakers I talked to dont work with orthotics shoes as those are medical assistance devices.

If I go to a bespoke shoemaker and that's all I get while get charged a couple grand, then **** the term bespoke. It's all limited to other sections than bespoke, if that is the procedure. If it's only coming to talk to whoever I had an appointment with, only then to have such shoes made, it's a total bullshit waste of time and a fraud, FWIW.

Apart from inspecting the foot in a different way, analyzing orthipaedic features of the client, and create a slightly different insole, what difference are there between bespoke shoemakers and orthotic shoemakers? Probably because orthotic shoemakers may resort to GYW and laser cutting patterns, but if the orthotic shoemaker operates under the same principle as bespoke shoemaker (hand clicking, hand welting), then the only difference between them two can only be distinguish by the footing procedure, and that makes only slight difference.

 

[VRaivio]

@dirnelli is French so he will likely know more about the Meilleur Ouvrier de France, another info source would be @SeamasterLux. As I understand it, the MOdF follows the examples laid down by medieval trade guilds with their arduous master level examinations. It's also highly respected on every field, very difficult to earn, and also a source of high stress as the maker is expected to uphold a consistent high level of craft. Not all get a ribbon at these tests, you know.

In short, Delos is a very, very good shoemaker by French standards.

 

[dirnelli]

Delos is considered to be an incredible artisan. So is Dimitri Gomez.

 

[DWFII]



I am surprised that you are willing to discredit, or refusing to acknowledge, such prestigious award for master artisans and their related work for your pursuit of intellectual orgasm.

There's the problem: I am none of that. And I have said so quite clearly and explicitly.

I even said that I didn't know anything about the MOF and so couldn't speak to or judge it. I said that clearly, unequivocally. Repeatedly. All in response to your remarks and unfounded accusations.

But you don't want to hear it. You're reading and hearing what you want to read, not what is actually there. You've got a burr under your blanket that you picked up in another thread, from another member, and you've gotten me and the discussion entirely confused with someone and something else altogether.

I didn't say any of the things you are ascribing to me. You're not listening. You're not responding to anyone else in the conversation...just to some imagined dialogue occurring entirely in your own head.

You wouldn't be surprised if you simply read what I wrote.

That said, I'm sure it must be difficult...you're faced not only with reading what others wrote but what you imagine they wrote.

edited for punctuation and clarity

 

[DWFII]



[As I understand it, the MOdF follows the examples laid down by medieval trade guilds with their arduous master level examinations.

That's very interesting and I applaud them for it. I wish we had a similar organization in this country. Is there an equivalent award in Britain? Perhaps BengalStripe will know....

Not all get a ribbon at these tests, you know.

Somewhat along the lines of the remarks...my remarks...that began this current go-round. Not everyone can be a master. Not everyone can be shoemaker. And saying it's so...claiming to be a shoemaker or a lastmaker...doesn't make it true.

It's not happenstance that causes the award to be made, you know. It's not happenstance that it is given to those who have worked for, earned, and achieved excellence...not just sat next to it.

In short, Delos is a very, very good shoemaker by French standards.

By anyone's standards. I've been saying that for years...right here, on SF...despite his apparent reliance on machines that some, sometimes purists here would dismiss.

edited for punctuation and clarity

 

[casemaker]

These might be of some interest, both taken from 'Leather in Life Art and Industry' by John W. Waterer.




One of the problems that Makers face, is the twisting of the Language, by marketing and advertising, obviously for their own ends. Current 'buzz words' include Bespoke, Artisan etc, and entirely meaningless, and usually false phrases like " created by a single craftsman", or my favourite, "An environmentally-conscious leather ", I've asked my tannery for it, but they don't seem to know what it is!

 

[DWFII]

I agree with chogall on this one...bespoke doesn't mean it's handmade or even good. It simply means that the maker will (as far as reasonably possible) make what you ask for, to the specs you request.

It comes from "bespeak" which in turn comes from the Middle English "bespekan" somewhere from the 12th to the 15th century.

Bespoke doesn't even mean an infinite range of possibilities. You might go in to order a bespoke suit wanting a navy/rust windowpane fabric, and find to your dismay that the tailor doesn't have access to a navy window pane. Or doesn't like a Bemberg lining.

Bespoke is all about asking/telling the maker what you want and not very much at all about how it comes about.

 

[DWFII]



These might be of some interest, both taken from 'Leather in Life Art and Industry' by John W. Waterer. One of the problems that Makers face, is the twisting of the Language, by marketing and advertising, obviously for their own ends. Current 'buzz words' include Bespoke, Artisan etc, and entirely meaningless, and usually false phrases like " created by a single craftsman", or my favourite, "An environmentally-conscious leather ", I've asked my tannery for it, but they don't seem to know what it is!

+1 I think one of the influences that most affected my somewhat cynical perspective on these kinds of things was a television advertisement years and years ago (before I went off to the army and college) that touted "genuine faux leather."