Epaulet shop - Official Affiliate thread

[fairlynerdy]

I was wondering if this was coming, based on the slowdown in the number of Alden makeups. Mike, I know you'll make the right decision for your business, so the following are just my personal, biased thoughts as a customer.

I'd be super bummed if EP dropped Alden. I've loved your makeups and wish I could have ordered more. As part of the wide foot brigade, it's taken me three go around to (hopefully) get my Alden sizing right and I haven't been able to get in more of your makeups until dialing it in. Once I do, I'm hoping to get a replacement Innsbrook Indy in the right size, an Alt Wien, and a replacement for my Olmsteads (love that makeup).

I think you should charge a preorder price that at minimum keeps you whole if you have to sell them not to the original purchaser. Speaking for myself, I'd be willing to pay 100% up front and look at it as the cost of being able to get shoes that properly fit my wide feet.

One last comment on Aldens quality. My shoe collection is mostly Allen Edmonds, Edward Green, and Alden, but I own or have owned C&J, Carminas, Bonafé, Rancourt, and other smaller brands. To me, Alden and Edward Green stand out noticeably for the way they break in and mold to your feet. Alden may have finishing issues, I definitely see that, but they use thicker, better quality insoles. That's the reason why Alden and EG will continue to get my business (well, along with the fact that they stock wides). Purely my opinion, FWIW.

 

[Notreknip]

If it's a special order, in-demand shoe I personally don't see any reason not to expect to pay 100% up front. 50% is more than fair - probably even generous.

Now, if they don't come as promised (rarely, I hope) - well, then depending where/how the error was made, that needs to be worked out between the manufacturer and the vendor and the appropriate party needs to stand up for the oversight.

I love my Cigar Brixtons enough to not be too sad about the Rydens. Cheers Mike.

 

[bry2000]

You ^ apparently were not part of the Revello Brixton pre-order fiasco.

 

[Nvspwndamnstr39]

Please Comment: Alden & Epaulet


Hey guys!

Happy 2017 everyone! You're going to see a lot of changes here at Epaulet over the next 3 months. We're going to overhaul our online presentation and target a lot of our product development towards our strong points. I'm looking to tighten and improve our stock assortment, whilst offering a really exciting mix of special order projects and MTO opportunities.

Since you guys are some of our best customers, and indeed.. I consider many of you to be close friends... I'd love to get your feedback as we pivot and change directions. Ultimately, I want to produce more of what you're looking for, and be the best retailer that we can.

So, how about we start with our friends in Massachusetts.. Alden shoes. I've posted quite a bit about them, but our account dates back to 2009. I was one of the first "new school" independent boutiques to carry their shoes and offer special makeups. We've had a lot of success over the years. but we're at a turning point. Here's the positives and challenges as I see them:

Positives
1) We have a long-standing relationship and a large base of existing customers
2) Consistent sizing and lasts make it well-suited to e-commerce and preorders
3) A decrease in overall business volume for the factory means quicker turnarounds and better availability of shell cordovan
4) Alden has been a significant part of our annual volume and looks good in our online shop
5) I personally like Alden shoes very much and respect their status as the best American footwear factory.
6) Alden has a large online community of fans. Many of our customers started with Aldens from us, and moved on to trousers, Southwick, trainers, etc.

Challenges
1) Mainstream interest in the product has sharply waned. In-store sales are almost non-existent, and first time customer orders have sharply dropped. Most shoes are sold to repeat Alden buyers
2) Our competitors are very focused on Alden, more than we can be. It's difficult to sustain the stock levels and preorder generation of a dedicated Alden account. They are also favored by the factory for production turnaroud
3) The high dollar plus more ambitious European retailers means that competitive product from Europe is more attractive than ever before. Many Alden customers have moved on to other brands
4) Stock styles and non-shell cordovan product is difficult to sell through. The return rate was once around 15%, and it's now close to 40%. The rate of abandoned deposits on special order styles is surprisingly high too, which then sticks us with units in impossible sizes and widths to sell.

I'd love to hear your take on things, and if you think that there's a way for us to move forward with this business, above and beyond what we're doing. Or if they're something that we can offer with Alden that you're not able to find elsewhere.

I have to imagine that other Alden retailers would enumerate the very same pros and cons you have. Perhaps it isn't worth it to try to speak to Alden's HQ if they are resistant to feedback, but if demand is indeed down and other retailers are chiming in, maybe they'd start to reflect more carefully on concerns such as QA, breadth of selection, turnaround time, and special options (e.g., Rydenboot-edge-gate). The waning of interest in Alden and the end of the heyday of American-made goods suggests that they can go back to being primarily an American ivy/trad company known by the preps and ivy-leaguers in my ivy league town. On the other hand, (and I see this in my industry) they can try to do what is challenging when one is in a business long enough to think they know exactly how things should be but nonetheless horizon-expanding: listen to younger and up and coming crowds who appreciate a classical sensibility but are attempting to take it in a new direction (e.g., hunting green suede tanker boots or maybe a shell ptb with brass eyelets to wear with an Ep Thedi horsehide MA1). It seems to me Viberg is willing to do this with the Notre-shopping streetwear kids or the old school mods who want clunky shoes and will buy repro-wear from Superdenim.

I'm concerned about the rise of Grant Stone. They are happy to go with cheap, who-knows-how-exploitative labor while coasting on the designs conceived of by Alden (doesn't every GS shoe look like a Barrie longwing?!). I will not ever buy a made-in-China knockoff looking shoe when I'm happy to have an Alden. However, I know I get stopped by a lot of University kids who ask me where I got my shoes; when they run into me the next day at the coffee shop after having researched Alden, they all ask me why one shouldn't buy a JCrew longwing or a GS blucher. I totally get it. I have a friend in town who is probably 4th or 5th on the food chain in a very big pharma company. His idea of killing it sartorially is a Banana Republic slim cut plaid shirt (non-iron!). Lots of dudes just aren't as obsessive as we SF guys are about details. They just "want to look good" and move on for the cheapest price.

Which brings us to the interesting question raised by Mr. Johnson below...

Will continuing with Alden affect your Goodyear welt shoes from Portugal? I haven't seen them in person but the jodhpurs look great online. If I was in the market for that type of boot I would be all over it. I'd like to see that line developed more.
In a broader sense, where do you see yourself in the larger marketplace? I feel like the brand does some stuff that's pretty high end (LBM overcoats for example) but then does some more value oriented stuff (Portugal suiting). I really like almost everything you put out, but i sometimes feel like the product line isn't very cohesive. Are you trying to serve a really diverse set of price points, ala Ralph Lauren, or a more narrow price category, like JCrew for example. If you're trying to maintain diversity or appeal to a higher price segment I could see Alden being beneficial. Or is this all driven by aesthetics? I'm not criticizing, just genuinely curious. I find the changes or evolutions of the brand interesting and it's something that is rarely this transparent.

I am often confused by the attempt to fashion a Venn diagram / shopping flow chart based on issues of aesthetics, tradition, construction, price point and body type. When do I buy a Merz Schwanen loopwheel tee vs an Ep tubular knit tee vs a $250 self edge henley? When is it ok enough to rock my Ep porto suit (one of my most complimented suits) and when do I drop over a grand on a Formosa from my other favorite NYC retailer? When am I too old to rock an Engineered Garments kit and can I still get away with a slim tapered japanese denim in my size 31 even though I'm over ten years older than that number?

If you're cornering the market on not top- one to five percenters, but instead on early career professionals or grad students, I'd love to see an ivy-league / college town popup and coffee shop collab. My fantasy of it would be to have young professionals and professors model your jodhpurs or horsehide GATs while also showing off some of the bonkers Gitman EFFs (maybe not that Asian coat hangers one). It would help the non-SF-informed crowd to realize there's more than Jcrew and Brooks Brothers for clothing options in a suburban setting.

If you're emphasizing the high end, I'd love to see more blog posts or literature on the traditions they come from or a guest appearance from someone like a Simon Crompton. I have to admit I enjoyed the little magazine I received on Blue Blue Japan, Camoshita, and other brands I didn't know about from NMWA. Knowing why the items are at a higher price point might help the sell beyond the quick blurb in the Mike notes.

aldens and epaulet pants go like peas and carrots.
alden was my gateway to ep. i drove to down town los angeles from san diego (which sucks) to find my ep size because of the alden - ep combos i saw on the alden thread. maybe the alden thread is more of a gateway to ep than aldens themselves...
my wardrobe is casual, alden lasts and materials work better for me than other more refined and more expensive alternatives.
just my take as an alden and ep junkie.

I bought the first of my 20+ pairs of walts and rivets because I saw DV and DonL killing it on the Alden thread. I copied so many of their looks and took all the credit downtown I have to imagine there are still quite a few Alden noobs who think they're trying to decide between a wingtip blucher or boot and end up dazzled by Ep trousers. (Shout out to Mike from my wife, who claims that she would take me in my 2014 gunmetal rivets and Carmina salinger monks any day over my $350 PBJs and Strike Gold denims with sick fades).

Last tip: bring back those Eggshell willies?

 

[Nvspwndamnstr39]

You ^ apparently were not part of the Revello Brixton pre-order fiasco.

This was like ancient history. Didn't this happen before Mdubs was Mdubs?

 

[Notreknip]



You ^ apparently were not part of the Revello Brixton pre-order fiasco.

Haha, no but I was, at one point, part of the Ravello Cap-Toe on Leydon (or something of the like) that never came to fruition due to Alden's stubbornness - I assume.

 

[FLW]

I think the whole "rare" shell thing encapsulates Alden's problems and why some of their luster has been lost. All we hear is the scarcity of these shells- the anger/joy over "secret" lists at select retailers, the 100% markup people try to land on eEbay, etc. No sooner has a customer been convinced that light colored shell is pure unobtanium than- poof- you see it everywhere. Meermin and Carmina have it. Vass and StC do MTOs. Viberg. The gorgeous shade produced for the Marlowe. Bespoke makers seem to have an allotment, too.

Now there are many reasons why those brands have it and Alden doesn't (different tanneries, the unique black magic that Alden works with their finishing, and so on). Yet to find this information one has to do a thorough doxxing of Alden shell history, trudging through many blogs and whatnot.

Alden should be doing the explaining. On IG, FB, and everywhere else. Hype the hell out of their shell and list the stockists. Hell, make public drop dates and let people line up at Leffot and AoM.

Alden thrives as a marquee name for the Epaulets of the world and they need to keep some buzz going.

 

[bry2000]



This was like ancient history. Didn't this happen before Mdubs was Mdubs?

What difference does that make? It still happened and it stands out in my mind and experience.

 

[BenLeaman]



Thanks for all of the feedback! I agree, I'd like to keep it in the assortment. What do you think about us concentrating on just the Innsbruck Indy style? The Indy boot is really distinct, you don't see other brands doing that shape well. And the Commando sole is something special too. The Innsbruck is consistently a great seller - even in CXL, and something that we're known for. Maybe it's a good idea to keep the basic Brown CXL Innsbruck as a rolling stock style, and offer individual makeups in Color #8 and other materials suggested by our customers? 

I was thinking you could just stick to your Innsbrook Indy and Alt Wien.

-Mike

@epaulet please see above quotes for precursor. Also keep in mind I've had a few heavy pours of bourbon so who knows where this is going....

As someone who has both bought a few pairs of Aldens from you, and also admittedly bailed on two preorders choosing to forfeit the deposit, I feel you should consider keeping Alden but focusing on the Alt Weiss and Innsbruck/Ironside Indys.

Storytime? Sure, why not?
I went into Alden hard, like balls deep not giving AF hard in 2013-2014. During this time I found myself on your website often, sooner or later it resulted in some Alden orders, then eventually the speckled chambray Rivets. That turned into a bunch of preowned Walts from a SF user. Seeing them opened my eyes to spending decent money on quality trousers, which resulted in me coming back to EP and direct ordering Rivets and Walts, which led to sweater preorders and shirting, which led into Southwick and now I'm hooked (not that I wasn't clearly before). I mean my mother in law got me a gift card from the web store this Christmas just because she's seen so many of my clothes with your tags on them, no lie. I guess the moral to this is I am yet another who used Alden as my gateway drug into Epaulet.

I would be sad to see them dropped from your line up. But, as can be assumed from my selected quotes above, I do not see a need at this current time to stock or carry a full line up. There are however certain things that you do better in the world of Aldens than anyone else.

Alt Weins. @Don L's pics of his #8 Bluchers had me sweating this shoe for the longest time. When I finally got a pair I was on my way out of Alden and realized they'd be better off unworn and sold. Regardless this makeup is Epaulet to me.

Ironside and Innsbruck Indys. You have spec'd out the perfect Indy boots. Enough said. In my opinion the Ironsides are superior to any other Indy, rare shell included.

I've mostly switched over to Edward Green and I've sold almost all my collection of Aldens; however there's 3 pairs I've kept. Two of them being Indys I bought from you; Ironside Indys and Innsbruck Indys (natty CXL).

Iunno, I think I'm rambling now.

TLR version: my vote is focus on Alt Weins and your Indys

Cheers!!!!

Edit to add photo

 

[skeptical jesus]

I personally think Alden fits in perfectly with the EP aesthetic, so it would be a shame to see it dropped, but economics are economics.

I personally would keep them around as a halo brand. Stocking them reflects well on everything around them.Keep a low volume of few core models that best represent the EP aesthetic. The Innesbrook Indy, an alt wein, and something simple like a tan calfskin boot (like this one at TSM), then offer unique makeups as pre-orders only with 50% deposit.

 

[CommodoreMarvel]



I took the same size MA-1 and field jacket. I think you want XL here.

Thank you, I hope you had a good New Year

 

[Epaulet]

Hey guys,

Thanks so much for all of the feedback, this has been incredibly valuable! A lot of you guys really took the time to write out your thoughts, and I very much appreciate it.

I agree with the overall sentiment: Alden is a good brand to have as a premium name, and I'm proud of the contribution that our styles have had to the overall mix. Some of our best customers have come from the Alden world, and I really like them as a company. Our documentary video from 2009 was a real labor of love. I remember how many pairs of black calfskin wingtip boots we sold when that video was published on A Continuous Lean.

Yeah. Just chew on that sentence for a minute to see how much the menswear world has changed.

Anyway, I think that we've got the way forward. When I was doing Carmina - especially their shell models - I always tried to order tough-guy boots, but their stuff never had the same presence as Alden. No one really does. So we'll stick with boots. I think that the Innsbruck is our central focus, but we can offer things like the Plaza-last Cardiff too. I'll keep the styles tight and concentrate on keeping good communication on the preorders and regular order intervals. We can build out that little section of the business and be the go-to for these specific styles. I'll up the deposits to $250, which should still be reasonable for those who want in, and will hopefully eliminate more of the abandonments. With the better logistics, I can promise quicker turnaround times and stay in contact more effectively.

Regarding our footwear collection in general, that's a whole other discussion, and I've got a ton of ideas to run by you guys. Thanks again!

 

[applky]

For Alden I'd say keep offering them, because the Epaulet exclusives have been some of the best. Maybe just stick to MTOs and group buys and don't offer them as an in-stock item at your stores. You can also charge a 50% deposit to ensure guys don't flake out when the final product is delivered. Customers who really want the shoes won't mind putting down 50%, especially if it's a unique style in a non-standard size. At least I would assume that would be the case, you did mention you got stuck with a bunch of A and EEE widths. Oh, and try and get those Ravello Brixton boots made from about 6 years ago! Haha

Thanks for all of the feedback! I agree, I'd like to keep it in the assortment. What do you think about us concentrating on just the Innsbruck Indy style? The Indy boot is really distinct, you don't see other brands doing that shape well. And the Commando sole is something special too. The Innsbruck is consistently a great seller - even in CXL, and something that we're known for. Maybe it's a good idea to keep the basic Brown CXL Innsbruck as a rolling stock style, and offer individual makeups in Color #8 and other materials suggested by our customers?

I agree with all this. EP's exclusives have been excellent, the Innsbruck especially. And I wouldn't hesitate to charge a full 50% deposit for preorders. Nice stuff costs money.

Mike knows this but I found EP in 2009 looking for some stock 403s (brown CXL Indys). I still own those Indys and they've held up amazingly well, but if I had bought more recently I would have gotten the Innsbruck Indy. It's an amazing shoe. I'm not a massive shoe guy but regardless, that one purchase introduced me to Epaulet and eight years later I buy nearly everything I wear from EP. No matter how difficult Aldens are, it seems important to me for EP to carry them to introduce people to everything EP's house line is known for: shirts, chinos, trousers and tailored clothing, sneakers, the works.

Also that documentary is still great after all these years.

 

[shunted22]

Count me in as someone else who discovered EP via Alden. It's led to about 10 orders of other stuff. Happy to hear you're leaning towards keeping them.
Running something in reverse green chamois or smooth tobacco would be awesome! Also shoes with eyelets seem too rare today. EP/Alden fills a great niche for those of us who don't dress super formally but still wish to look nice. Much of my business goes to B&M these days because they really push the envelope with some of their creative designs.

 

[bkotsko]

Actually Carmina was the gateway to EP for me.
I won't admit to the numbers of orders I have.
That being said, I have a few other ideas (suggestions on Alden), Mike. @Epaulet
I'll shoot you an email.