Custom White's Boots ... Thoughts?

[jrosenthal]



What does a pair of the Semi-Dress go for? Just a stock model like the Black Cherry ones. What's the wait time?

Normal wait time is quoted at 6-8 weeks, but I as well as others recently have gotten them in under 3 weeks, but that seems to be more the exception than the rule.

From memory, a bone stock semi-dress at this moment is about $385, but that is with no cap toe or leather other than the dress leather, black or brown- and let me tell you that this "plain" black dress leather is spectacular, soft as a glove, rich feeling and thick but not overly thick to be stiff and far better than any leather on any shoe I have owned including my AE's and Alden's (which although nice are much thinner)
With the medallion cap toe which adds $45, these boots were about $425. Black cherry Water Buffalo is an exotic leather so that will add to the price. If you do double leather sole as opposed to single leather or single leather with rubber, that adds again.
Considering what I have wasted on $300 Redwings, $350 Wokverine's, $500 Alden's and $400 Tricker's, all of which are excellent shoes but none fit my foot as well as these White's, these are a bargain.

James

 

[Morgenholz]

>Truly hardcore would wear Gripfast. I'm getting the impression that White's/Wesco/Nick's are for US Doc martens/Gripfast wearers who have grown up. Just as Loake and Trickers are the next graduation in the UK ;-) James

Ha! I have been lurking on every page of this string for the past six months, and it has guided me through my first four pair of custom White's, seamlessly ordered through Baker's. However, no post had prompted me to actually join and surface until this one! Having been somewhat a cafe-racer motorcycle punk in the eighties, and then a city walking-only commuter for in San Francisco and Chicago in the nineties, I discovered Dr. Martens and then Gripfast boots, which I wore almost exclusively by the turn of the century-- still have way more surviving pairs than my wife has counted. I just can't wear lightweight mass-produced shoes-- makes me feel as if I'm barefoot. Now that I've passed 50 and have gone to a more classically American style in my dress, I am working White's (turnaround time has been great) and Wesco (I just buy these stock off the rack) into my wardrobe. My lovely daughters carry on the Gripfast tradition, polished 1016's worn with prep clothes, which their friends admire. Sorry for the long post, but yes, Docs and Gripfast were the gateway drug for me.
Morgenholz

 

[jrosenthal]

My last remaining pair from over a decade ago. Always were huge on me (marked 11 but fit like a 12 wide) but I loved them so much I used heel and tongue pads and the heaviest socks I owned. They have been sitting in a pile for the last year waiting to be sold off but the former post made me share a pic of these lovely legends.
Still have my MIE Doc brogues, the only pair that still fit my weird feet....fit being a loose term considering now that I have my white's I know what fit should be.

James

 

[Mattisgrat]



I guess it's possible that not everyone cares about my new boots as much as I do (!), so I won't continue to post an egregious number of pics, but here are a few. Wore these all day yesterday, and am very happy with them. I love the look, and they feel good on my feet, with just some break in issues on the inside of each ankle. I had Baker's sand the block heel down closer to flush, which came out well, I think. One of the unintended effects is that the original midsoles were natural, but after the sanding Baker's dyed the sides brown, but left the tops of the midsoles natural, so there is still some contrast, as you can see on the "shelf" pic below. Followed by a heel pic.

I'm loving these boots and am about to pull the trigger on something similar but a bit different. I love the block heel and vibram sole combo you have there but can't find your original build info. It looks like you have a block heel with Vib 700 but I can't figure out if your heel is lowered or standard height. I'm actually going to be ordering a pair of bounty hunters in brown dress with a cap toe to wear as a winter boot up here in Ottawa Canada - 4+ months of winter. So I think I might be the first to post an INSULATED Bounty Hunter. Heel detail is the only thing left before I pull the trigger. Thanks!

 

[jrosenthal]

Not my boots but that looks like a 1/4 lowered. The pair of retro oxfords I got for try on had the block heel and they were standard height which appeared a bit higher than this (looked almost platform but felt great). Those too had the picnic table shelf behind the heel and Kyle said that sanding them down flush was something they offer in house and was easy to do. That is what I'm gonna do on my British Tan boots I plan for next-1/4" lowered block heel sanded by bakers.

James

 

[linafelt]

I'm loving these boots and am about to pull the trigger on something similar but a bit different. I love the block heel and vibram sole combo you have there but can't find your original build info. It looks like you have a block heel with Vib 700 but I can't figure out if your heel is lowered or standard height.

I'm actually going to be ordering a pair of bounty hunters in brown dress with a cap toe to wear as a winter boot up here in Ottawa Canada - 4+ months of winter. So I think I might be the first to post an INSULATED Bounty Hunter. Heel detail is the only thing left before I pull the trigger.

Thanks!

Yes indeed, Bounty Hunter with block heel, lowered 1/4". I am very happy with both the looks and the feel of this heel. But the sole is not the 700 but rather the 269 (aka "western" sole). It thins out a bit under the instep and back through the heel.

I think a BH with brown dress will look very cool. You rarely see the brown dress except in the SD. Looking forward to pics when they come...

 

[gregornz]



my first four pair of custom White's,

Pics or it didn't happen

 

[jrosenthal]



>Truly hardcore would wear Gripfast. I'm getting the impression that White's/Wesco/Nick's are for US Doc martens/Gripfast wearers who have grown up. Just as Loake and Trickers are the next graduation in the UK ;-) James

Ha! I have been lurking on every page of this string for the past six months, and it has guided me through my first four pair of custom White's, seamlessly ordered through Baker's. However, no post had prompted me to actually join and surface until this one! Having been somewhat a cafe-racer motorcycle punk in the eighties, and then a city walking-only commuter for in San Francisco and Chicago in the nineties, I discovered Dr. Martens and then Gripfast boots, which I wore almost exclusively by the turn of the century--  still have way more surviving pairs than my wife has counted. I just can't wear lightweight mass-produced shoes--  makes me feel as if I'm barefoot. Now that I've passed 50 and have gone to a more classically American style in my dress, I am working White's (turnaround time has been great) and Wesco (I just buy these stock off the rack) into my wardrobe. My lovely daughters carry on the Gripfast tradition, polished 1016's worn with prep clothes, which their friends admire. Sorry for the long post, but yes, Docs and Gripfast were the gateway drug for me.
Morgenholz

So since you have both White's and Wesco's, how would you compare the differences in fit? I am wanting a pair of the JH classic oxford lace to toes which are apparently on a slightly different last than the jobmaster, but need a generous toe box and the pictures seem to vary.
James

 

[broken_oracle]

Returning here from an unsuccessful internet image hunt - can anyone point me to photos, new or broken in, of the #38 Swing Last - without celastic? I'm curious if this would reduce the 'clown shoe effect' over time.

Will be placing my order Friday when paycheck clears. Spoke with Kyle & based on my tracings, measurements, Brannock size, & little-toe-crushing experiences in other boots (RW Gentleman Travelers, old Chippeaw moc toes, etc) he, surprisingly, strongly recommended that I go with a 12 D Swing Last. Other option, which he did not heartily endorse, would be a 12 E Semi-Dress last. I spend all day on my feet & these shoes will see some seriously miles in all 4 seasons, lotsa crouching, lifting, shoving.

Distressed Smooth throughout (will be Obenaufing), 6" Bounty Hunters with no logo, cut top, no pull loop, antique eyelets with hooks, standard height Cuban heel, Vibram 700 sole, standard trim (per Kyle's rec, given the use to which I'll subject them), single midsole with either White's Brown edge dressing or left raw for Baker's to apply the lighter medium brown shown here here.

Also debating, if I go with the swing last, whether to cap or not to cap - I feel no cap has greater 'dress' potential, but perhaps it's true that a cap mitigates the swing last's width. If capped it would be plain toe, without the perforated edge effect.

I'll order the leather laces but probably switch to a waxed cloth pair. Will order the tongue protectors but trim back the fringe like someone else here recently did.


Any recommendations on this build in general?

(...and hey anyone know a good source for brown waxed laces in whatever length a 6" height would require? Thanks!)

 

[broken_oracle]

Note this Taiwanese website suggests White's Swing Last is a Munson Last. I wonder if that's correct or if it's simply a case of the latter merely inspiring the former?

 

[jrosenthal]



Note this Taiwanese website suggests White's Swing Last is a Munson Last. I wonder if that's correct or if it's simply a case of the latter merely inspiring the former?

I think if you're gonna subject them to hard use I would do the celastic toe, it will keep the structure better. The clown effect is not at all with the height of the toe if you look at the profile shot I took above, it is actually pretty slim and not upturned like the redwing toes) but the width and "swing"-out around the pinky toes (which is also my problem) is what makes them seem so clownish. If you read back a couple pages, I compare an actual Munson jump boot to the 154 oxford last, which is sleeker than the swing last). The swing last is actually a more symmetrical toe than the Munson which is dramatically contoured to look ergonomic. I think the swing may be inspired by the Munson, but the swing is actually more elgant. I am wearing them now on my way to work and they are pairing well with grey trousers and sport jacket

James

 

[jrosenthal]

Also, the double stitched "standard" edge exaggerates the clown effect. Looking down at them all morning, I know if I had gone with the close trim, they would look slimmer and have more dress potential.
I think the medallion is a dressy touch, but simple cap would look good as well. If you plan to do a lot of "shoving" (I do a lot of pulling, specifically heavy carts on concrete and tile floors which while wearing my leather soled Wolverine's is comical), I would opt for the mini-commando sole...but I have no experience with the traction on the 700-I'm sure someone else can chime in on the traction merits of the other soles.
Also, if you plan to wear them with any pants other than jeans or khakis (I wear grey wool trousers to work almost every day) stay away from the speed hooks at the top. I have already popped a few stitches in the hem of my trousers today on the speed hooks and they keep catching and tugging my pants down. As much as I love the ease of speed hooks at 3:45am, my future white's will be eyes to the top to save the hem in my trousers.

James

 

[Morgenholz]

jroesnthal, fit re: White's and Wesco-- This was probably my most intense research project prior to ordering my first pair of each. Living in Indiana, I just do not have the opportunity to see or feel anything not mass-produced, so I generally go on advice or buy well-used "test" pairs on eBay. I am a textbook Brannock 8D, normal foot shape. For reference, I wear 8.5D in street shoes and New Balance. All of my Gripfast (their sizing is neither US nor UK, almost a hybrid of both) are Size 8. For Dr. Martens, it depends on the sole, so I won't go into that here, but if there is a DM thread, I can wax on twenty-five years of experience and fifty-plus pairs... All of my hiking boots are La Sportiva and 41.5 fits like a glove. I previously wore 8D in US-made Chippewa (a bit cramped in the toe box), Wolverine (about right), and Frye (loose), and 8E in Minnesota-built Red Wing 8111 (roomy enough for really thick socks). I wear exclusively 8D in White's and Wesco-- Here is my experience with those:

Wesco provides very detailed measurement instructions that suggest that they conform to Brannock standards, and I went with my Brannock 8D for my first pair of Jobmasters. Fit is perfect. The steel-toe Highliners are a bit roomier in the toe box. I have a pair of Boss on order, so I can report on those later. I have three lasts in White's: Smoke Jumper (Farmer Rancher) 8D fits very well, with the recommended space in the toe, room for heel slip, and snugness around the instep-- SJ is true-to-size. Semi Dress in 8D (two Bounty Hunters) feel about 1/4 size roomier-- almost as roomy as the Red Wing 8Es-- I would call them 8.25D. Original Packer in 8D (off-the-rack) is snug in the toe box, very snug in the arch/instep, the Arch Ease is rather severe along the outsides of the foot, and the heel slip is perfect for a western boot; they would probably break in (and break my feet in) to a high-arches, medium-sock fit if worn very regularly.

This is my somewhat limited experience as an 8D-- comparative fit of other sizes or models may differ.

 

[Morgenholz]

James, I agree that for dress, I would go with all eyes and close trim (and dress leathers)-- while I kept the standard edge stitching on my two 6-inch Bounty Hunters (British tan and Dress brown), I did add the medallion cap and all eyelets so that I could wear them with the wool gabardines that I prefer over jeans.

 

[climbinglife]

According to Kyle @ Bakers, with regards to sizing Wesco & White's...he told me to stick to the same size, at least in the C461 Last. ymmv