Cesare Attolini Appreciation Thread

[MrAristocat]

Here they are! These are the only two labels inside.

Do you mind posting the full suit pic, please? I have the same type of size label in two of my older Attolinis, which are actually labeled under the old name, Sartoria Attolini and are from 2003 and I believe were made to measure or bespoke, as they have also a label with handwritten name of the gentleman they were made for. They found their way to me in a roundabout way through @flannelsandtweed.

The suits are gorgeous 3-button numbers in worsted cashmere (never seen that before, to me looks and feels like sleek wool) in incredible staple colours of deep navy and very dark grey, which I believe is called Oxford grey. They actually have slightly structured shoulder lines - very light but somehow tight, both supremely comfortable and soft AND making me look like I have strong, somewhat square shoulders. And the sleeves are not spalla camicia per se, but have a con-rollino effect to them as well, together with the shirring of shirt-shoulder construction. And the lapels and collar are hand-padded and the suit definitely handmade.

I recently acquired three more Attolini suits of which I have resold one (not to you haha) which are the newer AUS model and I am quite impressed with them too. Attolini somehow looks sharp and strong while wearing incredibly soft and comfy.

 

[DapperDan15]

Do you mind posting the full suit pic, please? I have the same type of size label in two of my older Attolinis, which are actually labeled under the old name, Sartoria Attolini and are from 2003 and I believe were made to measure or bespoke, as they have also a label with handwritten name of the gentleman they were made for. They found their way to me in a roundabout way through @flannelsandtweed.

The suits are gorgeous 3-button numbers in worsted cashmere (never seen that before, to me looks and feels like sleek wool) in incredible staple colours of deep navy and very dark grey, which I believe is called Oxford grey. They actually have slightly structured shoulder lines - very light but somehow tight, both supremely comfortable and soft AND making me look like I have strong, somewhat square shoulders. And the sleeves are not spalla camicia per se, but have a con-rollino effect to them as well, together with the shirring of shirt-shoulder construction. And the lapels and collar are hand-padded and the suit definitely handmade.

I recently acquired three more Attolini suits of which I have resold one (not to you haha) which are the newer AUS model and I am quite impressed with them too. Attolini somehow looks sharp and strong while wearing incredibly soft and comfy.

I don't have one at the moment, but I'll try to take a few tomorrow. The description you give sounds an awful lot like mine: definitely handmade, three-button cut, shoulders, etc.

The cloth could very well be a worsted cashmere judging by how it feels.

 

[MrAristocat]

I don't have one at the moment, but I'll try to take a few tomorrow. The description you give sounds an awful lot like mine: definitely handmade, three-button cut, shoulders, etc.

The cloth could very well be a worsted cashmere judging by how it feels.

Thanks, looking forward! Forgot to say that on mine there is an internal label somewhere that states fabric composition, yours may have it too.

Here’s a pic showing the style well, but disregard the apparent fit issues - it was a long and windy day.

 

[DapperDan15]

Thanks, looking forward! Forgot to say that on mine there is an internal label somewhere that states fabric composition, yours may have it too.

Here’s a pic showing the style well, but disregard the apparent fit issues - it was a long and windy day.

View attachment 2300209

Great suit!

Your post made me curious, so I searched all over the jacket again and managed to find the fabric tag inside the tiny inner pocket. It turns out mine is a super 160's wool, drop 7, bemberg lining. That's the good news. Bad news is that I tried it on and realized I had alterations to make to the trousers (I'm a drop 10), so fitting pics will have to wait until the new year.

I did snap some photos of the jacket itself, the inner tag/trouser label, and the shoulder. Yours seems to have slightly more shoulder roping than mine, but the lapels, buttons, and cuffs are all similar.

 

[DenisDnepr]

I asked two tailors, in two different countries, to examine my Attolini suits. Between them, they possess 90 years of experience tailoring and providing bespoke services. Both of them concluded that my Attolinis are largely machine made. I understand that there's a difference between sewing-machine guided by hand vs entirely machine made, but it was disappointing nevertheless to learn that the "made entirely by hand" claim on Attolini's website, along with the pictures of tailors hand-sewing garments, is largely for advertising purposes.

The first tailor commented: "Nice suits, but they are largely machine-made". I asked him, what about the claim that they are entirely hand made. He responded: "slick advertising".

This is the conclusion of my second tailor:

"I checked your suits and all of them are machine stitched. The only hand sewing on them is the top stitching on the lapels, cuffs, pockets, etc."

This particular tailor even adjusts the shoulders, which is a task few will attempt. She has examined all my suits internally, as she must detach the sleeves from the shoulders to adjust the shoulder width. She also reduces the length of the sleeves from the sleeve-head rather than shortening the length from below, which is how less-skilled tailors shorten jacket sleeves.

Attolini shoulders fit well, but she has to conduct surgery on Tom Ford suits, to remove 90% of the shoulder padding and narrow the shoulders. This may sound outrageous to TF aficionados, but I already have well-defined shoulders, so Tom Ford suits make me look like a linebacker. Remove the shoulder padding and narrow the shoulders however, and you get a Tom Ford suit that could have been made in Naples.

Anyway, I still love Attolini's silhouette, and will continue to add them to my wardrobe, but I'm disappointed that their "made entirely by hand" claim is largely false.

I have a few pairs of trousers and they have been altered in a bespoke atelier in my city for me. They were shocked by the fact that whole belt area was sewn by hand as in bespoke trousers. Certainly, long seams were made by machine but everyone makes this way, even bespoke studios.
Moreover, the most English bespoke ateliers make big part of work by machine which CA makes by hand. So, it seems your tailors manipulated you and gave you wrong information.
By the way, I have 2 suits, many sports jackets, a trouser from CA. And I determinately claim that the same level of quality, hand work and fit can do few bespoke artisans.

 

[DenisDnepr]

First time poster! Have dipped my toes into high end menswear recently and just received the first Attolini piece I’ve purchased, a cashmere sportscoat. Very impressed by the craftsmanship and material. No tailoring yet, but I think it needs to be taken in a bit - there’s some sagging in the middle of the back. View attachment 2055525

I have the same jacket. It is made from 100% cashmere and very light and warm. ..love it!

 

[Professor Χάος]

I have a few pairs of trousers and they have been altered in a bespoke atelier in my city for me. They were shocked be the fact that whole belt area was sewn by hand as in bespoke trousers. Certainly, long seams was made by machine but everyone do in this way, even bespoke studios.
Moreover, the most English bespoke ateliers make big part of work by machine which CA makes by hand. So, it seems your tailors manipulated you and gave you wrong information.
By the way, I have 2 suits, many sports jackets, a trouser from CA. And I determinately claim that the same level of quality, hand work and fit can do few bespoke artisans.

Yeah...I'm sure that 2 tailors with 90 years experience between them have no idea what they're talking about.

 

[DenisDnepr]

Yeah...I'm sure that 2 tailors with 90 years experience between them have no idea what they're talking about.

You have been informed now that there are other opinions about quantity of hand work in CA garments from different bespoke professionals.

 

[Professor Χάος]

I also own 3 bespoke Attolini suits that impressed my tailors. The difference in construction technique seems to be obvious to well trained professionals. I suppose you now have to pay a premium for Attolini's genuinely hand-made garments. Attolini has become a global brand, that produces 8,000-9,000 garments per annum. They could not possibly make each piece primarily by hand with 130 employees, only a handful of whom are master tailors.

 

[Professor Χάος]

You have been informed now that there are other opinions about quantity of hand work in CA garments from different bespoke professionals.

Yes, and since I don't know those bespoke professionals, but know my tailors well, I will discount that information accordingly.

 

[DenisDnepr]

Yes, and since I don't know those bespoke professionals, but know my tailors well, I will discount that information accordingly.

But forum is being read by many people. They should have an access to different opinions. But also I assure you that your experience tailors said to you wrong info.

 

[RapFan]

CA has a lot more machine work than people like to admit. Lots of decorative hand stitching, some handstitching inside, but quite a lot of machine work.

 

[DenisDnepr]

I also own 3 bespoke Attolini suits that impressed my tailors. The difference in construction technique seems to be obvious to well trained professionals. I suppose you now have to pay a premium for Attolini's genuinely hand-made garments. Attolini has become a global brand, that produces 8,000-9,000 garments per annum. They could not possibly make each piece primarily by hand with 130 employees, only a handful of whom are master tailors.

Lets look at Chat GPT opinion
Cesare Attolini and Savile Row bespoke studios are both renowned for their exceptional tailoring, but they differ in their approaches and the extent of handwork involved in their garments. Here’s an assessment comparing the two:

1. Handwork in Cesare Attolini
Cesare Attolini is known for its Neapolitan tailoring, emphasizing lightweight construction, natural shoulder lines, and exceptional hand-finishing. Key points:
• Hand-sewing: Most of the garment is crafted by hand, including the stitching of collars, lapels, buttonholes, armholes, and linings.
• Minimal fusing: Neapolitan jackets avoid heavy interlinings, using hand-padded canvases to maintain their signature softness.
• Soft construction: The lightweight and unstructured designs require extensive hand shaping to ensure flexibility and comfort.
• Details: Hand-sewn shoulder pleats (“spalla camicia”) and hand-attached sleeves for natural movement.
Estimates suggest that up to 20-30 hours of handwork go into an Attolini jacket. This makes their ready-to-wear and made-to-measure garments stand out for their artisan quality, rivaling bespoke craftsmanship in many ways.

2. Handwork in Savile Row Bespoke
Savile Row bespoke studios are the pinnacle of traditional tailoring, emphasizing structure, precision, and full customization. Key differences:
• Fully bespoke process: Everything from pattern drafting to cutting and sewing is done by hand, ensuring a perfect fit for each client.
• Construction: Jackets typically have more structured canvases, requiring extensive hand padding and shaping.
• Fittings: Multiple fittings (baste, forward, and final) involve ongoing adjustments, all completed by hand.
• Details: Buttonholes, linings, and even pockets are meticulously hand-sewn, with individual touches reflecting the house style.
A bespoke Savile Row suit often involves 50-80 hours of handwork, depending on the complexity of the design and the tailoring house.
Comparison
• Quantity of Handwork: Savile Row bespoke generally involves more hours of handwork due to the fully bespoke nature and the structured tailoring style. Cesare Attolini, while extremely hand-intensive, leans towards a made-to-measure or ready-to-wear model, with some bespoke options.
• Philosophy: Attolini focuses on soft tailoring and elegance, requiring delicate handwork for lightweight construction. Savile Row emphasizes structured tailoring and durability, necessitating more robust hand-sewing techniques.
• Fit and Style: Savile Row bespoke offers unparalleled customization for individual clients, whereas Attolini’s strength lies in blending handwork with a specific Neapolitan aesthetic.

If pure quantity of handwork is the measure, Savile Row bespoke typically has the edge. However, Attolini’s focus on comfort and artistry in ready-to-wear and made-to-measure garments ensures that their craftsmanship is second to none within its category.

PS. To other words - CA have a less hand work because it is RTW and they avoid much time for measuring, personal pattern, heavy padded design etc

 

[DenisDnepr]

CA has a lot more machine work than people like to admit. Lots of decorative hand stitching, some handstitching inside, but quite a lot of machine work.

Of cause, but Savile Row bespoke as well

 

[Professor Χάος]

We are here to share views and information. I presume good faith and fair reporting on your part, and that your tailors are well-trained. But your position can basically be reduced to: trust me, my tailors are better than yours. That is not a valid form of reasoning.

First of all, none of us know the precise provenance of the garments your tailors examined, by which I mean you have not identified the store at which you purchased them (such as Braun, Hamburg for which Attolini makes suits), or if you purchased your garments from one of the Attolini showrooms across the world, or somehow acquired them directly from the CA factory in Casalnuovo, Napoli.

Second, what is more certain is that the purpose of each firm is to maximize profits/maximize shareholder value/maximize market share, which are distinct but roughly equivalent in terms of enterprise value. Brand management is integral to the maximization of enterprise value, and so is cost minimization. Firms achieve this goal by producing at the quantity where marginal revenue approximately equals marginal cost, and by maximizing the scalar distance between price and average total cost.

Third, profit maximization is also achieved through product differentiation. Whether the brand in question is Kiton, or CA, or Isaia, there are different levels of quality offered through various product lines, such as bespoke services, MTM, or different methods of distribution (such as producing suits for other brands). Hence, its unlikely that any firm produces all their garments based on a universal production standard.

My point is that it's possible that all of our tailors are providing us with accurate information, because they might be examing garments made using distinct production standards. Let's maintain some perspective, instead of drawing general conclusions from small samples, and limited information.

But forum is being read by many people. They should have an access to different opinions. But also I assure you that your experience tailors said to you wrong info.