Cars We Drive!

[bdavro23]

not quite peak
View attachment 2090965

Subtle, I like it...

 

[Dino944]

Super, super sweet! Ultra nice shine you have going on there. Looks super awesome without shields.

Porsche's and BMW's are nice, but at C&C's, there's literally dozens of them. I guess some have no problem with that. On the plus side, their club activity is on the higher side.


I need something a little more off the beaten path. I've never seen more than one 328 at a C & C. Sometimes there's 2-3 Ferraris. I've been at some C & C's where I was the sole Lotus out of 200 cars.

I've often been tempted to sell my Elise (and now the Elan since I just got it) in order to pick up either a 308 or 328. Those are still within my budget, but damn, the repair bills can be stunning. I love that BaT sellers usually post their service records. I have reviewed many 308/328 repairs, and in many cases, there are not too bad. Significantly higher than a Lotus bill, but still just barely in the realm of acceptable. But not always, and some owners have stunning bills at the end of some projects, like $20k or higher. I'm talking about repair bills, not rebuilding bills. I would have to crash my Lotus at high speed in order to generate a $20k bill and that would be rebuilding, not repairing normal wear.

Maybe in a few years when my kids are out of college. That will free up some budget. For now I sleep well knowing the ownership costs of a pair of Lotus cars won't break the bank.

Super, super sweet! Ultra nice shine you have going on there. Looks super awesome without shields.

Porsche's and BMW's are nice, but at C&C's, there's literally dozens of them. I guess some have no problem with that. On the plus side, their club activity is on the higher side.


I need something a little more off the beaten path. I've never seen more than one 328 at a C & C. Sometimes there's 2-3 Ferraris. I've been at some C & C's where I was the sole Lotus out of 200 cars.

I've often been tempted to sell my Elise (and now the Elan since I just got it) in order to pick up either a 308 or 328. Those are still within my budget, but damn, the repair bills can be stunning. I love that BaT sellers usually post their service records. I have reviewed many 308/328 repairs, and in many cases, there are not too bad. Significantly higher than a Lotus bill, but still just barely in the realm of acceptable. But not always, and some owners have stunning bills at the end of some projects, like $20k or higher. I'm talking about repair bills, not rebuilding bills. I would have to crash my Lotus at high speed in order to generate a $20k bill and that would be rebuilding, not repairing normal wear.

Maybe in a few years when my kids are out of college. That will free up some budget. For now I sleep well knowing the ownership costs of a pair of Lotus cars won't break the bank.

I've owned my 328 since 2006. Some times the service bills have been on the high side for a major service with belts and bearings, while some years it's been $1,000 for the year. I've never seen a $20K service bill or anything close to that, and neither have the friends I know who own 308s/328s. That's more like a 355 service with valve guide replacement and/replacing headers. The only way I can see that you saw a 308/328 with a $20K service bill is it was a higher mileage deferred maintenance car or one that also needed cosmetic or interior work done. Or perhaps you saw a stack of receipts for many years totaling $20K?

 

[Tim Apple]

What kind of repairs are we talking about here for $20k? The reality is most good indy mechanics around me charge between 150-200 for labor hours so anything labor intensive will cost.

But, like most classic cars, if the maintenance and parts replacements (hoses, bushings, seals, etc…) have already been done, the ongoing cost should not be that high. There are a lot of parts out there, especially if one isn’t set on only using OE parts.

And of course, if a car is that well sorted, it will be more $$ to buy. Money is spent either way. I chose to get a car that needed work and have it fully refurbished from the engine valves to the bushings. Cost me almost half of what I spent on the car but I have the confidence things were done….

I don't recall the exact car on BaT where I saw the 20k bill. There's a lot of 328's and 308's so it would take some time to find it, but it's out there. Another car had over $50k in receipts over a period of 12 years if I remember right. That's just huge money compared to a Lotus. Like I said, if my kids were out of college I could perhaps stomach such jaw dropping maintenance costs.

I did do a quick look and found this 308 with a $16k bill, for a timing belt, radiator, clutch, and some suspension parts.

Original-Owner 1981 Ferrari 308 GTSi

Bid for the chance to own a Original-Owner 1981 Ferrari 308 GTSi at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #126,070.

bringatrailer.com

 

[Dino944]

I don't recall the exact car on BaT where I saw the 20k bill. There's a lot of 328's and 308's so it would take some time to find it, but it's out there. Another car had over $50k in receipts over a period of 12 years if I remember right. That's just huge money compared to a Lotus. Like I said, if my kids were out of college I could perhaps stomach such jaw dropping maintenance costs.

I did do a quick look and found this 308 with a $16k bill, for a timing belt, radiator, clutch, and some suspension parts.

Original-Owner 1981 Ferrari 308 GTSi

Bid for the chance to own a Original-Owner 1981 Ferrari 308 GTSi at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #126,070.

bringatrailer.com

After looking at that service bill, that looks like a deferred maintenance car that was left sitting for years without any care. The clutch disc was frozen rusted onto the pressure plate and flywheel, removal of mouse nests, needing to replace brake lines and fuel lines (is not a regular thing). Granted it's a 42 year old car so if some of those things had never been done, well then they needed to be replaced (hoses and rubber parts are perishable on all cars). In addition, the car probably should have had belts and bearings and a major service at least in 2024, but there are no recent receipts for that, again suggesting deferred maintenance or they want the next buyer to deal with it, so the buyer should take that into consideration before bidding. Buy a well sorted regularly maintained car and you won't be looking at things like that for a long time.

The first fuel injected 308s 1980-82 pre- 4valve cars, are ones to avoid. Low on power 205HP, IIRC, burned oil, and other issues, hence these were generally the least desirable and least valuable 308s. People thought they could get into a Ferrari cheap (10-15 years ago these were $26-35K), but couldn't afford the regular maintenance, and hence a lot of these cars just got put away in garages, barns or even outside under car covers and then they need lots of repairs that are not regular or annual repairs.

308/328 ownership isn't cheap. However, I've had friends with Porsche 928s and air cooled 911s, and their service costs over time are not that different than 308/328 ownership if added up and compared over a period of say 10 years.

However, with your Elise being considerably newer, and using some Toyota parts, I'm sure the cost of ownership is less than that of a vintage Porsche or Ferrari.

 

[Tim Apple]

Oh, on the Lotus side that's bad, replacing the clutch on an Evora is a $10k job! It's crazy but you have to disassemble the whole rear end of the car and pull the engine for that job. That has put me off Evora ownership for sure! It's about $2k to do an Elise clutch.

 

[Dino944]

Oh, on the Lotus side that's bad, replacing the clutch on an Evora is a $10k job! It's crazy but you have to disassemble the whole rear end of the car and pull the engine for that job. That has put me off Evora ownership for sure! It's about $2k to do an Elise clutch.

Ouch! Last I had heard a 308/328 clutch was about $3K.

 

[FPB]

If you want another reason to not buy a Ford, my wife's car needs a (safety) recall done. We scheduled an appointment (which took 3 weeks), she called the dealer today to ask about a loaner or a ride to work, dealer says it will probably be a MONTH before they will be able to diagnose the car. Yes, they want the car to sit there for a MONTH before they'll even look at it.

 

[Omega Male]

Automotive life comes at you fast.

 

[Michigan Planner]

A few months ago I got a letter from FCA asking to use my '22 Jeep Gladiator for random emissions testing. They'd offer a "comparable" loaner vehicle, $1,000, detail my vehicle, and would fix anything on my Jeep (other than major body damage) that needed to be done. I thought, "Sure, why not..." and filled out the little questionnaire and sent it off. I never heard back so I wrote it off as not being selected. Oh well, no big deal.

Then last week I got a call from the testing lab asking a few more questions and they said they would like my Jeep so we set it up for them to pick it up from my house this morning. Yesterday they called me up to tell me that the Gladiator they were going to swap it with came back to them with some damage so they offered me a brand new Dodge Durango with a Hemi or a Jeep Wagoneer. I always thought the Durango was sort of a trashy looking vehicle and I used to have an '87 Grand Wagoneer so, after double checking that there wasn't a Grand Cherokee available (my wife is in the market for a new vehicle and the Grand Cherokee is near the top of her list so I thought this would be a good chance to test one out for an extended time), I went with the Wagoneer.

The driver showed up first thing this morning with my Wagoneer and holy crap this thing is huge! I have to make a very tight 90º to get into my garage and I don't think there's anyway I'll be able to park this in there. My Gladiator has the Rubicon trim package so it sits up higher but the front end on this Wagoneer is so massive I can barely see anything in front of me - I can see how people run over their kids in their driveway in these big SUVs and full size trucks. The interior is nice and it definitely rides smoother but it's got to be a couple inches wider than my Jeep was. I've been a Wagoneer driver for all of about 40 minutes and I am convinced that I will never own a vehicle this large!

It did however make me want to change into some yoga pants and Uggs and a Canada Goose jacket before stopping at Starbucks for the morning...

I was sort of looking forward to this but they say it can be 5-8 weeks for the testing to be completed and now I'm definitely hoping they finish up a lot sooner (the testing is being done at the Stellantis NA HQ which is just a few miles from my house so hopefully my Jeep is ready to be returned a lot sooner than the generic estimate).

Well, just over a month later and I got my Gladiator back (they were actually ready to return it a week ago but I asked them to hold off for a week since we had a couple long-ish road trips this past week that I wanted to use the Wagoneer for).

Since the Wagoneer was too wide to make the turn into my garage, I let boxes from the Christmas decorations accumulate in the garage and left tools strewn about so I had to clean that out again to make space to park. I took care of that and got into my Gladiator and was immediately reminded how bare-bones the interior of my top-of-the-line Gladiator is compared to the mid-range luxobarge Wagoneer. 😞

Oh well... it is nice to have my actual vehicle back, and I will say that the seats in my Gladiator are actually quite a bit more comfortable, so at least there's that.

 

[patrick_b]

VW, Audi, Porsche to adopt Tesla charging in 2025. That’s good news!

Volkswagen, Audi, Porsche and Scout Motors brands to implement the North American Charging Standard in future electric vehicles

Future Volkswagen, Audi, Porsche and Scout electric vehicles to use the North American Charging Standard (NACS) charging port, starting in 2025

newsroom.porsche.com

 

[otc]

I wish the Q5 plug in hybrid could push out a *little* more electric mileage, but IMHO that could be a pretty sweet ride.

Faster than the SQ5, more fuel efficient than the Q5, true mechanical AWD, ~23 miles electric range. Price tag is hefty though, especially if you're not getting a tax credit.

23mi range seems like it is *just* pushing it for how we'd use it. Especially when you start to factor in cold weather and that you probably don't want to regularly be charging the batteries to 100% daily (unless the EPA calculations are based off something like a healthy 80% charge).

edit: Looks like a "100%" charge on a Toyota PHEV is only ~83% of battery capacity, so probably don't need to worry about immediately giving up 20% of range to battery health if other makers follow suit.

 

[otc]

And I mostly am thinking about that because we've been short-tripping my wife's car a lot...and with cold temps outside, the thing never even gets close to operating temperature on drives to town, grocery store, or the closer of her 2 offices.

A plug-in Hybrid could run all of these trips without turning the engine on, and could provide luxuries like instant-on heat (or scheduled/app-activated heat before getting into the car)...and it could do so with 110v charging.

Maybe the reduced wear and tear would even help balance the higher up front price tag?

 

[greekgeek]

And I mostly am thinking about that because we've been short-tripping my wife's car a lot...and with cold temps outside, the thing never even gets close to operating temperature on drives to town, grocery store, or the closer of her 2 offices.

A plug-in Hybrid could run all of these trips without turning the engine on, and could provide luxuries like instant-on heat (or scheduled/app-activated heat before getting into the car)...and it could do so with 110v charging.

Maybe the reduced wear and tear would even help balance the higher up front price tag?

Programming cabin temp while still on the plug is a great feature for the Rav4 Prime. Heating up the cabin, or just defrosting the windshield on all electric from a cold start is not really practical and the ICE will kick on at low level to juice the heat pump.

With heated seats and steering wheel, pretty much no need to kick on the ICE (turn HVAC off) but sometimes, it's nice to maintain visibility through the windshield so gotta bite the bullet!

 

[patrick_b]

And I mostly am thinking about that because we've been short-tripping my wife's car a lot...and with cold temps outside, the thing never even gets close to operating temperature on drives to town, grocery store, or the closer of her 2 offices.

A plug-in Hybrid could run all of these trips without turning the engine on, and could provide luxuries like instant-on heat (or scheduled/app-activated heat before getting into the car)...and it could do so with 110v charging.

Maybe the reduced wear and tear would even help balance the higher up front price tag?

I wonder about the same thing. My wife drives just a couple of miles to work and most of her driving is short trips, which is the worst thing for an ICE.

The Volvo is a mild hybrid which also gets me a bit hibbeldy after reading about Audi's 48V hybrid issues in recent years which when coupled with supply chain issues caused owners to wait weeks/months for their vehicles.

 

[venividivicibj]

What I think of when cars add fake engine sounds