Borrelli shirts - really that good? Who really makes best shirts in world?

[SpooPoker]



They aren't MTM. They make a pattern shirt for you from a generic cloth,tweak the fit on you, then you place an order. I believe it is $250 euros = or $330 at todays exchange rate.

What Gus said. I've got some quality MTM shirts from a good shop (not online, was measured in person). Based on the initial fitting with Mina, I anticipate these being markedly superior.

ORLY. Hmmmm.

 

[steveoly]



For those prices, I doubt that they can get away with plastic buttons, especially if their competition still use MOP. It's been a while since I've bought a Borelli, the way the sleeves are set in make me afraid to launder them, the collar is nice. Recently I was told that Robert Jones will start carrying them last time I was in the store.
Last I heard they have three cuts, reg, slim and don't breathe out. My one Attolini shirt is fantastic and Brioni makes a very nice shirt. These days I buy reg Zegna on sale, availability is good and prices are okay. Haven't had a T&A shirt since they closed their Toronto store many years ago, but on the whole Hilditch and N&L shirts are nearly as nice as Italian ones. Anybody have any experience with Emma Willis? I hear good things about her shirts, might be worth a try.
Can't really comment on my local bespoke makers, they have good reps, but I found the shirts lacking when I saw them on a colleague.

Regarding the buttons, here are a couple of pictures of a new Borrelli

I don't know exactly what retail is nowadays but these new ones which appear 100% machine made and have plastic buttons can be had for around $100. I frankly like the trim fit and the collar, but they're so far below "old" Borrelli quality. For RTW, I prefer Finamore or Barba from Shop the Finest.

 

[earthdragon]

I'm pretty happy with my Kiton's (new arrival) - beautiful fabric and a ton of great stitching.
These and Finamore & Attolini are pretty much my wardrobe these days....

 

[jerrybrowne]



I'm pretty happy with my Kiton's (new arrival) - beautiful fabric and a ton of great stitching.
These and Finamore & Attolini are pretty much my wardrobe these days....

Very nice.

 

[marblehouse]



Regarding the buttons, here are a couple of pictures of a new Borrelli

Spoiler

I don't know exactly what retail is nowadays but these new ones which appear 100% machine made and have plastic buttons can be had for around $100. I frankly like the trim fit and the collar, but they're so far below "old" Borrelli quality. For RTW, I prefer Finamore or Barba from Shop the Finest.

Surprised by this; can't imagine Borrelli is using plastic in their mainline shirts.

In all seriousness, I really doubt that they had plastic buttons.
All of the Borrelli shirts that I have seen over the past couple of years still have hand-stitched sleeveheads and the collar is still attached to the shirt by hand. The MoP buttons are thinner than in previous years but the buttons are still definitely, indubitably made of mother of pearl, no doubt at all.
Whilst I realise that a retailer can request that Borrelli make shirts of a particular level of finish, I don't think that Borrelli would make shirts with plastic buttons. As others have pointed out, at that level and with competition such as Finamore, Barba and so on, they just can't afford to have plastic buttons whilst the others have MoP.

+1. The new Borrellis I've handled are definitely MOP (albeit smaller).

Old (very) Borrelli




New money Borrelli









​

 

[steveoly]

That Kiton is awesome, ED.

I'm pretty happy with my Kiton's (new arrival) - beautiful fabric and a ton of great stitching.
These and Finamore & Attolini are pretty much my wardrobe these days....

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

Yeah, it's surprising indeed. I also have the two types of Borrelli shirts that you posted. It seems they're on the decline. I still love me some older Borrelli - Super Sak and Royal Collection are awesome.

Surprised by this; can't imagine Borrelli is using plastic in their mainline shirts.
+1. The new Borrellis I've handled are definitely MOP (albeit smaller).

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

Old (very) Borrelli

New money Borrelli


​

 

[Achilles_]

Does the Borrelli with the plastic buttons have the fleur de lis stitching?

To be honest, if the choice is between newer Borrelli with thinner MOP buttons, or finamore/barba at the same price, I would grab the finamore/barba just to be safe (plus I love fat MOP buttons) This is assuming you are buying online and cannot touch/feel the shirts in question.

 

[steveoly]

Nope. Standard stitching. IIRC crows feet stitching can only be done by hand. This new shirt has zero signs of handwork.

 

[Simplicio]



My best ones.
Bespoke: Turnbull & Asser!
Ready to Wear: Brooks Brothers.

If you've bought bespoke T&A shirts I'd be interested to hear if it is possible to have them made in a slim fit.

 

[doughboysc]

I've never own a T&A bespoke shirt before. I like to buy a half dozen bespoke shirts for my first order when I plan to go to NYC. But, I've got some fabric swatches. Very neat and colorful!

 

[taxgenius]



If you've bought bespoke T&A shirts I'd be interested to hear if it is possible to have them made in a slim fit.

I would assume so.

 

[marblehouse]



Nope. Standard stitching. IIRC crows feet stitching can only be done by hand. This new shirt has zero signs of handwork.

Would you mind telling us when/where you purchased these shirts? I have yet to see any Borrelli mainline shirt without both MOP and crow's feet stitching.

 

[F. Corbera]

There are some persistent mythologies in this thread.

First, nothing on a Borrelli (old school), Barba, Finamore, Kiton, etc. shirt is attached "by hand" sewing except for the buttons. For that you would need to see someone like Matuozzo and even with her, you would have to pay dearly and make it clear that is what you want. Even the shoulders, with their visible shirring, on a Borrelli, Barba, Finamore, etc. shirt are not attached "by hand."

All the seams on the RTW Neapolitan numbers are sewn by machine. Period. Again, nothing is not "attached by hand" except the buttons.

What people are seeing are the lap seams and buttonholes being finished by hand, and sometimes the edges. This work can be very finely done (as is the case with most Kiton shirts) or it can be done more sloppily (or carefree, if you prefer) as on Borrellis pre-company-restructuring. In the case of the seams, it is purely decorative. In the case of the buttonholes, it can be argued but not really demonstrated that the embroidery is more flexible (this might be true, but it is undone by the sample-to-sample variation in how each seamstress finishes each buttonhole...some holes are too small, some too large, and others just right. Some seamstresses are good; some are bad. Luck of the draw.) A hand attached button should normally be superior, since it can be shanked.

NSM shirts are made in a similar way to the RTW Neapolitan makers. It is a machine sewn shirt with various levels of hand-sewn finishing, depending on the level of such features you elect to buy. SF member marcolondra has some good descriptions of this system in some of his threads...basically, in Naples, the more you pay, the more of the shirt can be sewn by hand.

Mina has a good eye for fit and a focus on pleasing her customers, so that is where the value comes in as well as the choices in fabric.

 

[ethanm]

You mean the little booklet that comes with Borrellis is a lie?

As long as it's accurate that only little Italian women make the shirts I'm OK with it.

 

[marblehouse]



There are some persistent mythologies in this thread.
First, nothing on a Borrelli (old school), Barba, Finamore, Kiton, etc. shirt is attached "by hand" sewing except for the buttons. For that you would need to see someone like Matuozzo and even with her, you would have to pay dearly and make it clear that is what you want. Even the shoulders, with their visible shirring, on a Borrelli, Barba, Finamore, etc. shirt are not attached "by hand."
All the seams on the RTW Neapolitan numbers are sewn by machine. Period. Again, nothing is not "attached by hand" except the buttons.
What people are seeing are the lap seams and buttonholes being finished by hand, and sometimes the edges. This work can be very finely done (as is the case with most Kiton shirts) or it can be done more sloppily (or carefree, if you prefer) as on Borrellis pre-company-restructuring. In the case of the seams, it is purely decorative. In the case of the buttonholes, it can be argued but not really demonstrated that the embroidery is more flexible (this might be true, but it is undone by the sample-to-sample variation in how each seamstress finishes each buttonhole...some holes are too small, some too large, and others just right. Some seamstresses are good; some are bad. Luck of the draw.) A hand attached button should normally be superior, since it can be shanked.
NSM shirts are made in a similar way to the RTW Neapolitan makers. It is a machine sewn shirt with various levels of hand-sewn finishing, depending on the level of such features you elect to buy. SF member marcolondra has some good descriptions of this system in some of his threads...basically, in Naples, the more you pay, the more of the shirt can be sewn by hand.
Mina has a good eye for fit and a focus on pleasing her customers, so that is where the value comes in as well as the choices in fabric.

I can already see the next titan to fall...

Cucita a mano: Made by machine. Price tag attached by hand.