Artisanal Clothing and accessories discussion (MA+, CCP, Layer-0, Paul Harnden, Taichi Murakami, Bor

[ClambakeSkate]

Unless the clothes are 3D printed they are hand-made. There is not a magical garment machine where you put in some measurements and some fabric and the clothes come out the other end. Clothes from H&M are hand-made, they are sewn together by human hands. But clothes from H&M are not the same thing as GBS, obviously.

I really am curious what you were expecting.

 

[nyarkies]

Thanks for the input and correction.

More HAND SEWING then to be exact. That's the correct term that was eluding me last night. And of course, clothes from H&M and GBS (or most labels discussed here) are not the same thing. But if we're just gonna argue that the sewing done on an H&M is also by hand, then anybody can just slap "hand-made" on most garments.

Further question since it seems you're very familiar or knowledgeable with the processes of clothes-making, is it still true that a hand stitched garment more durable than a machine stitched garment? Or is that moot now given with improvement of technology or machinery?

 

[ClambakeSkate]

anybody can just slap "hand-made" on most garments.

And they do, lots of companies do just that.

But most companies don't sew buttonholes by hand. Or cut single layer with scissors. Or do hand padstitching on jackets. Or finish cuffs by hand. Or dye each piece one at a time. etc, etc, etc.

Hand stitched or machine stitched can not be said to be more durable one way or the other. Depends on who's holding the sewing needle or sitting in front of the sewing machine. Technology creates shortcuts. Sometimes shortcuts create inferior product. It's not possible to say all technology is bad or that only old world techniques are valid when discussing clothing construction.

 

[oulipien]

I really am curious what you were expecting.

Sounds like he was expecting hand-attached sleeves, etc., just like he said in his previous message.

That's what I'd've expected from GBS, too, given the way he writes about his clothes—though on reflection I've never seen him comment on sleeves nearly as much (if at all!) as he does about hand-sewn buttonholes.

 

[eloq]

machine stitches are 100% more durable than a hand stitched one, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Hand stitching is important in some types of garments..1) bespoke. why? it allows for a more 'fuller' fit. i.e in pad stitching or attaching shoulder pads in jackets.

so why hand-finish garments? it has always been a display of the skill level of the tailor. a machined button hole may lack the same finesse as a hand-stitched one but in no way is it less durable. same thing with a hand-attached button vs a machine attached button.

when i was in school, it took me over 200 attempts before be able to hand-stitch a buttonhole well consistently. it takes me 10 mins to make 1 while it takes a machine 3 seconds. http://williamsclothiers.com/2012/01/hand-tailored-buttonhole-tutorial/ if you want to know how much work goes into it. Its beautiful in its own right so I admire the likes of GBS but don't go into it thinking its 'made better' or its more 'durable' but go into it for the love of the craft and owning an artistic piece (as pretentious as it sounds but I don't want my shirts having buttons attached like this despite it being more consistently durable).

 

[Zamb]

machine stitches are 100% more durable than a hand stitched one, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Hand stitching is important in some types of garments..1) bespoke. why? it allows for a more 'fuller' fit. i.e in pad stitching or attaching shoulder pads in jackets.

so why hand-finish garments? it has always been a display of the skill level of the tailor. a machined button hole may lack the same finesse as a hand-stitched one but in no way is it less durable. same thing with a hand-attached button vs a machine attached button.

when i was in school, it took me over 200 attempts before be able to hand-stitch a buttonhole well consistently. it takes me 10 mins to make 1 while it takes a machine 3 seconds. http://williamsclothiers.com/2012/01/hand-tailored-buttonhole-tutorial/ if you want to know how much work goes into it. Its beautiful in its own right so I admire the likes of GBS but don't go into it thinking its 'made better' or its more 'durable' but go into it for the love of the craft and owning an artistic piece (as pretentious as it sounds but I don't want my shirts having buttons attached like this despite it being more consistently durable).

your argument is full of holes. Machine stitches are not necessarily better than hand sewing. there are some types of hand sewing that are better for some things and some which machines cannot even replicate.

but then...........what do i know?

 

[eloq]

sounds alright to me.
the question was the durability of the stitch.

 

[oulipien]

I frigging love this guy's accent.

 

[Zamb]

sounds alright to me.
the question was the durability of the stitch.

there are different kind of machine stitches, and there are different kind of handstitches

a buttonhole made by a chain stitch machine may be more uniform, but it cannot be more durable than one made by the hand of someone skilled in making buttonholes and doing them using high end silk twist

A button sewn on by a chain stitch button tacker cannot be as strong as one sewn by hand with waxed thread and tied off with a handmade shank which effectively functions as a lock stitch.
Again there is a difference between hand made and hand sewn.

Generally an item said to be hand made may be made on a machine, but is usually made by one person who is skilled enough to execute the whole garment, so the garment is made by the HAND SKILL of the person using the machine. Machine made garments are usually those made in a sewing factory by multiple machine operators (simetimes dozens of them) where the process set up to do different pieces by maybe many different people with very basic machine operating skills in such a case the person who makes a collar probably never sees the front of the shirt or have no knowledge of how the yoke is constructed. its all dictated by a production system rather than individual skill.
In some factories there are welt pocket machines, collar machines, button tacking machines and humans simple operate these machines by just starting them, inserting fabric pieces and letting the machine do the work.

With hand made garments, you have a basic machine and these things like welts, button sewing, shaping collars etc are done by the advanced (hand skills) of the person



Hand sewn garments are completely different and have very little machine sewing. Like Couture, or high end bespoke tailoring, where the machine is used mostly for basting and finishing certain areas but the garment is sewn at least 80% by hand

 

[NGOStudio]

there are different kind of machine stitches, and there are different kind of handstitches

a buttonhole made by a chain stitch machine may be more uniform, but it cannot be more durable than one made by the hand of someone skilled in making buttonholes and doing them using high end silk twist

A button sewn on by a chain stitch button tacker cannot be as strong as one sewn by hand with waxed thread and tied off with a handmade shank which effectively functions as a lock stitch.
Again there is a difference between hand made and hand sewn.

Generally an item said to be hand made may be made on a machine, but is usually made by one person who is skilled enough to execute the whole garment, so the garment is made by the HAND SKILL of the person using the machine. Machine made garments are usually those made in a sewing factory by multiple machine operators (simetimes dozens of them) where the process set up to do different pieces by maybe many different people with very basic machine operating skills in such a case the person who makes a collar probably never sees the front of the shirt or have no knowledge of how the yoke is constructed. its all dictated by a production system rather than individual skill.
In some factories there are welt pocket machines, collar machines, button tacking machines and humans simple operate these machines by just starting them, inserting fabric pieces and letting the machine do the work.

With hand made garments, you have a basic machine and these things like welts, button sewing, shaping collars etc are done by the advanced (hand skills) of the person



Hand sewn garments are completely different and have very little machine sewing. Like Couture, or high end bespoke tailoring, where the machine is used mostly for basting and finishing certain areas but the garment is sewn at least 80% by hand

So true particularly with leather work. The only issue with hand sewing is the level of experience and human error. On the other hand, I must admit that eventually, machine will surpass human in many tasks, including sewing. There have been so many technological advancements in manufacturing.

 

[Zamb]

in a certain sense Machine stitching has indeed surpassed hand stitching in terms of efficiency and ease of use.
but they are two different things, so in another sense it cant.
there is a certain beauty ti hand ditching that machine cannot replicate, there are also certain stitches that are done by hand that cannot be done by machinery.

Its like laser cutting and carving, the laser is more precise, faster.........but hand carving has an artistic beauty when done by a highly skilled person that cannot be replicated by a laser

 

[NycLondon]

hivemind question,

which wash looks better with below boot?

boot =

LEFT, BUT BOTH ARE NICE, AS THE BOOTS ARE VERY COOL

 

[NycLondon]

Hotoveli has GBS.

George Bernard Shaw had a great beard

 

[NGOStudio]

in a certain sense Machine stitching has indeed surpassed hand stitching in terms of efficiency and ease of use.
but they are two different things, so in another sense it cant.
there is a certain beauty ti hand ditching that machine cannot replicate, there are also certain stitches that are done by hand that cannot be done by machinery.

Its like laser cutting and carving, the laser is more precise, faster.........but hand carving has an artistic beauty when done by a highly skilled person that cannot be replicated by a laser

soul searching

 

[NycLondon]

IF SOHO
HOTOVELI
Idol
Assembly

The best single place for NYC noir is "IF". If your girl friend is with you she will go nuts, as her clothes selection is even better.
Barneys midtown is the best for one stop shopping.