Archibald London Hand Welted Shoes - preorder issues, discussion,and resolution.

[deliku]

The foam was surprising, but otherwise it is what they said it was so that’s good news for some.

Cork filler would have been preferable to foam and leather would have been most impressive, but it’s not too big of a deal. I think the main difficulty with foam filler is it rips apart easily when a cobbler tries to resole (as happened here), but that’s the cobbler’s problem to deal with.

I’m still not convinced that the leather was non-indicative of the final product. It looks the same as other final product photos and it’s clear to me that this was the same shoe they used for their marketing photos.

Archibald London: true craftsmanship, no middlemen, Official Vendor Thread

what's the purpose of kangaroo leather for the soccer cleats?

www.styleforum.net

The Hand-Welted Brogue Oxford Shoes - Last 001

This classic, defined Brogue is finger-stitched by our craftsmen in Modena and features a supple Italian calfskin upper. Our dress shoes are merged with the sole through a process that luxury brands have forgotten (or tried to) called hand-welting, a construction that requires the finest...

www.archibaldlondon.com

 

[j ingevaldsson]

Again I’m not entirely sure what the purpose of this was since it was a non-production sample but the shoe is no more.
Components: the leather was garbage CG stuff. Not super difficult to peel the finish off.
Had the liner on top of the insole again with the foam under it
View attachment 1576163
View attachment 1576164
sole - veg tanned View attachment 1576156 View attachment 1576159
No shock to anyone - we saw the bumps but
View attachment 1576165
it had a fiberglass shank
View attachment 1576166
And an absolute ton of foam instead of cork or felt. Thick layer that ran from heel to toe couldn’t get it off in one shot but here’s a decent sized chunk you can see View attachment 1576168
View attachment 1576169
Heels were stacked
View attachment 1576170
Toe puff View attachment 1576171
Heel stiffener
View attachment 1576172
And the groove after pulling stitches
View attachment 1576174
View attachment 1576175

Certainly a different thing to the other shoe.

From what I can gather from the pics above, not commenting on upper leather or finishing, only the internal things shown here (I try to be factual):
- Proper thick insole, think the holdfast at least partially is machine carved, quicker then doing it by hand but not affecting the result that much, so absolutely ok
- Relatively sparse welt stitch, which you often see at lower priced hand welted shoes.
- Pre-twinned thread, nothing to say about that, wouldn't expect it to be hand twinned on a shoe like this.
- Foam is quite common on RTW shoes in Italy instead of cork, it's cheap and easy to use and can feel comfortable initially for the wearer, but doesn't conform to the feet permanently nor breath the same way as cork, felt or leather (porous leather is sometimes used) does, and would not hold up as well. Generally the rating would be: rubber foam < cork paste < cork plates/felt/leather.

- Heels are pre-built, with leather heel stacks. It's better to build the heels on the shoe, but standard for factory-made shoes is pre-built heels like this, some Hungarian, Chinese and Indonesian makers in lower price ranges do build them on the shoe
- Real leather heel stiffener is great.
- Celastic toe stiffener, standard for RTW, although when hand welted and hand lasted it's quite common with leather toe stiffeners, all Hungarian hand welted shoes, Bonafé and Scafora use real leather I believe, same for most Indonesian. It doesn't affect the shoe that much, and a common shortcut used even for the most expensive factory-made Goodyear welted shoes.
- Fiber glass shank is not the most common, usually metal, wood or leather, but doesn't really differ that much between them, as long as it's secured properly.

Overall, it's what one would expect, it's definitely good for Italian-made hand welted shoes at the price of ~€450, but there are some shortcuts that one would not find at for example Hungarian, Chinese or Indonesian hand welted shoes at similar price or for example Bonafé or Meccariello's lowest priced hand welted which is one step up in price, and I can't see how anyone can claim that they are making "the best shoes there is" with the above.

To get a picture of how some other shoes look inside, you can see this article where me and two bespoke makers/cobblers disassembled shoes from Loake, Carmina and Paolo Scafora. And if you want to compare it with how the best bespoke shoes in the world are built, you can see this article following the making of a pair of G&G bespoke or this where you have the making of Main d'Or / Eiji Murata shoes in the middle of the article.

 

[JohnMRobie]

In full disclosure I did break the shoe down on video conference with Rohan and I’ll say he took extensive notes and seemed genuinely interested in hearing what I saw. I think with this construction the biggest things were the leather quality and the finishing. The finishing on this shoe was pretty atrocious with dye stains all over which is why I got it to cut apart. I will say I still don’t find their lasts particularly attractive and a decent number of the colors seem a bit gimmicky to me and I’m not sure how they’d work into an outfit but if they were to maintain this construction, change leather suppliers from Valderano and eliminate a bunch of the existing options to focus on getting a few colors really right, step up QC/finishing and swap foam to cork sheets they’d have a pretty good shoe at a good price but still be a decent distance away from where they want to be competing but would slide in well to be able to compete with some of the other options in this price tier.

 

[taxgenius]

In full disclosure I did break the shoe down on video conference with Rohan and I’ll say he took extensive notes and seemed genuinely interested in hearing what I saw. I think with this construction the biggest things were the leather quality and the finishing. The finishing on this shoe was pretty atrocious with dye stains all over which is why I got it to cut apart. I will say I still don’t find their lasts particularly attractive and a decent number of the colors seem a bit gimmicky to me and I’m not sure how they’d work into an outfit but if they were to maintain this construction, change leather suppliers from Valderano and eliminate a bunch of the existing options to focus on getting a few colors really right, step up QC/finishing and swap foam to cork sheets they’d have a pretty good shoe at a good price but still be a decent distance away from where they want to be competing but would slide in well to be able to compete with some of the other options in this price tier.

If all the changes were made as you point out, I doubt the price would remain the same. There is reason why a handwelted shoe with top leather and finishing costs what it does.

 

[JohnMRobie]

If all the changes were made as you point out, I doubt the price would remain the same. There is reason why a handwelted shoe with top leather and finishing costs what it does.

It wouldn’t have to jump that much. There’s a big difference between top finishing and acceptable finishing. Same goes for leather. It’s not like they were paying nothing for their existing supply and the shoes aren’t that much less expensive than shoes with much better leather and finishing made in the same country. It’s about a $100-150 USD difference between where their shoes are at for MSRP ex VAT and what Meccariello hand welted would cost you on RTW.

 

[clee1982]

what's their non-naked price suppose to be again?

 

[TokenMao]

It wouldn’t have to jump that much. There’s a big difference between top finishing and acceptable finishing. Same goes for leather. It’s not like they were paying nothing for their existing supply and the shoes aren’t that much less expensive than shoes with much better leather and finishing made in the same country. It’s about a $100-150 USD difference between where their shoes are at for MSRP ex VAT and what Meccariello hand welted would cost you on RTW.

Yeah that's the thing, compare what Archibald offers to Bonafe which is like $500 for a captoe oxford that's better in most if not all aspects. If you love the Archibald last and design (which to be fair aesthetic is a huge factor) then by all means go for it, but I don't see these being the industry shakers that Archibald claims them to be even if they do make those improvements. I feel like the target audience is people who are stepping up from the AE tier of GYW shoes and want handwelted but don't have the time or desire to look into the "harder" to find options like Bonafe or Meccariello.

 

[clee1982]

They have to step up to EB level first, AM finishing is a lot better than EB

 

[JohnMRobie]

what's their non-naked price suppose to be again?

It’s unclear - it says £470 but I believe that is inc. VAT so I think roughly $525 USD ex VAT - so same or similar to Vass and EB. AM somewhere around $650. Main Chinese HW options are ballpark around that 650 as well. It’s a competitive space.

 

[deliku]

In full disclosure I did break the shoe down on video conference with Rohan and I’ll say he took extensive notes and seemed genuinely interested in hearing what I saw. I think with this construction the biggest things were the leather quality and the finishing. The finishing on this shoe was pretty atrocious with dye stains all over which is why I got it to cut apart. I will say I still don’t find their lasts particularly attractive and a decent number of the colors seem a bit gimmicky to me and I’m not sure how they’d work into an outfit but if they were to maintain this construction, change leather suppliers from Valderano and eliminate a bunch of the existing options to focus on getting a few colors really right, step up QC/finishing and swap foam to cork sheets they’d have a pretty good shoe at a good price but still be a decent distance away from where they want to be competing but would slide in well to be able to compete with some of the other options in this price tier.

It was nice of you to do all this for them. I hope Rohan realizes that and appreciates it. I mean, it is embarrassing for them but it could have been a lot worse at the end of the day.

 

[clee1982]

It’s unclear - it says £470 but I believe that is inc. VAT so I think roughly $525 USD ex VAT - so same or similar to Vass and EB. AM somewhere around $650. Main Chinese HW options are ballpark around that 650 as well. It’s a competitive space.

I think AM is more like ~$730 USD (you have to shipping which is like 60 euro), I forgot OT/Yeossal price, but 650 sounds about right.

 

[clee1982]

I don't know what's Vass price now, but about same?

So if you ask me if you want handwelt "for cheap"
Vass for dress shoe (unless you like their Budapuest/Peter 2 high wall stuff)
EB for casual stuff, boots etc.

Archibald is going for a mix now?

 

[clee1982]

then the more "dandy" dress shoe stuff
AM or the Chinese option (though very different aesthetic, AM is not "dandy" it's heavier looking but still sharp)

then of course I forgot Winson and Mattina, both looks good, but no experience and under cuts both Vass and EB

 

[JohnMRobie]

In USD Vass is about 575 with shipping.
Yeossal is like 675 when you add shipping I think?

 

[JFWR]

What is the general consensus on the better tanneries/locations for calf skin? When I was discussing calf-skin origins with Kyle at Crockett and Jones NYC, he suggested that German calfskin was usually finer, as Germans take it from younger calfs due to a preference for very young veal. Do you folks have any insight on that?