Any Tax Lawyers?

[randallr]

Really considering this as a possible career path. I am currently an accounting major and I really enjoy my tax class. Please either PM me our share your advice/experience/whatever in this thread.

 

[RedLantern]

I am an aspiring tax lawyer (3L, will graduate having taken every tax course at my school), and I plan on applying to a Tax LLM program. Generally the employment outlook for the legal industry is dismal right now. I have no real firsthand knowledge, but my tax profs tell me that being a tax attorney is nothing like being an accountant. My impression is that an accountant is given the character and amount of various sums in a transaction and crunches the numbers, whereas my tax classes have focused mainly how how to determine, argue, and defend various characterizations. Giving an overall picture of the monetary consequences comes second to the characterization and explanation of the mechanics and policy of the law.

 

[randallr]

I know it's not going to be the same as being an account, that being the main reason I want to consider it. Are you at UT? I heard that if you complete an LLM at a top law school with a good tax program you are set for life. I heard this from a lawyer I currently work with who works with mutual funds.

 

[RedLantern]

Yeah, I'm at Tennessee. No LLM program here though, I'm headed back home to Seattle after graduation and will apply to LLM programs then. I have also heard that an advanced tax degree is helpful, but I have also heard recently that it's not the golden ticket it once was.

 

[randallr]

Originally Posted by RedLantern

Yeah, I'm at Tennessee. No LLM program here though, I'm headed back home to Seattle after graduation and will apply to LLM programs then. I have also heard that an advanced tax degree is helpful, but I have also heard recently that it's not the golden ticket it once was.

I'm probably only going to go if I can get into one of the top schools otherwise I'll pursue a different route. I'm almost a senior so I feel like I need to start gathering as much advice as I possibly can about future career paths. I really enjoy my tax class and feel that I have a pretty good "knack" for it, my professor was the one who first put this idea in my head.

 

[RedLantern]

I think you need to have a J.D. to get into an LLM program. If you are sure you want to get an LLM, I don't know how much stock the admissions dept. puts into your J.D. school ranking (the UW admissions page had no admissions data), but I imagine it is more important to do well wherever you go (especially in tax courses) than to go to a T-14 law school. Again, I'm talking out of ****** here so someone who actually has an LLM please chime in!

 

[randallr]

Originally Posted by RedLantern

I think you need to have a J.D. to get into an LLM program. If you are sure you want to get an LLM, I don't know how much stock the admissions dept. puts into your J.D. school ranking (the UW admissions page had no admissions data), but I imagine it is more important to do well wherever you go (especially in tax courses) than to go to a T-14 law school. Again, I'm talking out of ****** here so someone who actually has an LLM please chime in!

I mean that I won't go for my JD if I don't get into a pretty good school. My GPA is a 3.8 at one of the better schools in the midwest(I realize this isn't say too much), a lot of it is going to ride on my LSAT score as I haven't even begun to look at the test. I have been a very good standardized test taker historically so we'll see how it goes.

 

[Viktri]

...

 

[AR_Six]

3L going into the tax department at a BigLaw here in Canada (which is not the same as BigLaw in the USA). What the profession looks like depends very very heavily on what kind of tax law you practice. In larger firms the tax department is for the most part an arm of corporate, coming in at the back end of deals to ensure that all the sharp corners tax-wise are rounded off to the greatest extent possible - large deals are business motivated, not tax motivated. If you want to come in at the front end and deal with tax-motivated (ie tax structure) deals, you're looking at a smaller outfit. Then there's tax litigation, which is a whole other ball game. There are various specializations depending on where you are. It's pretty varied, by all accounts, so one person's experience is not likely to mirror another's.

 

[intent]

I'm a 2L studying a class of Tax I (federal income tax), and while it's not my cup of tea, I can see how it's interesting to some people. Definitely a solid career path if you can get a job.

 

[Connemara]

Lol @ randallr as a lawyer

 

[Hazad]

Originally Posted by randallr

I heard that if you complete an LLM at a top law school with a good tax program you are set for life. I heard this from a lawyer I currently work with who works with mutual funds.

Assuming you can get into NYU's tax LLM program (the top ranked program since its inception), you still need to do exceptionally well and rank highly or you won't find a career. NYU's career fair, and the one it shares with Georgetown's LLM program, both have FAR fewer employers than either schools JD OCI programs, and you cannot participate in the JD OCI at either school. And NYU admits an exceptionally large LLM class (because it does generate a large amount of cash), so its not as though you'll be a unique snowflake either.

My sincere advice is to get into a VERY good law school (I would not even go to a school if it isn't in the t14 or possible even better in this economy unless you have a full ride) and bust your ass. You'll land a summer associate position and hopefully you can get a project or two from someone in the tax department. See if you like it, if so, take tax classes. If you still enjoy it then hopefully you land a 1st year associate position and tax is available to you. If not, try to get a job with one of the Big4 and see if they can pay for the LLM. If all else fails, then going right into a top ranked LLM program with a JD from a top school will bode well (assuming you still do well at the LLM).

All that being said, I am worried by how many people think law school provides a golden ticket or some such. This becomes even more pronounced when you deal with LLM programs as this is even more debt you are taking on and the risk/reward becomes even more exaggerated.

TL;DR: A tax LLM is not like a JD from one of the t6 (where simply by virtue of being admitted you will be given a job and it is yours to **** up, see e.g.

).

 

[randallr]

Originally Posted by Hazad

Assuming you can get into NYU's tax LLM program (the top ranked program since its inception), you still need to do exceptionally well and rank highly or you won't find a career. NYU's career fair, and the one it shares with Georgetown's LLM program, both have FAR fewer employers than either schools JD OCI programs, and you cannot participate in the JD OCI at either school. And NYU admits an exceptionally large LLM class (because it does generate a large amount of cash), so its not as though you'll be a unique snowflake either.

My sincere advice is to get into a VERY good law school (I would not even go to a school if it isn't in the t14 or possible even better in this economy unless you have a full ride) and bust your ass. You'll land a summer associate position and hopefully you can get a project or two from someone in the tax department. See if you like it, if so, take tax classes. If you still enjoy it then hopefully you land a 1st year associate position and tax is available to you. If not, try to get a job with one of the Big4 and see if they can pay for the LLM. If all else fails, then going right into a top ranked LLM program with a JD from a top school will bode well (assuming you still do well at the LLM).

All that being said, I am worried by how many people think law school provides a golden ticket or some such. This becomes even more pronounced when you deal with LLM programs as this is even more debt you are taking on and the risk/reward becomes even more exaggerated.

TL;DR: A tax LLM is not like a JD from one of the t6 (where simply by virtue of being admitted you will be given a job and it is yours to **** up, see e.g.

).

I understand this. I have had internships all through college and work pretty hard relative to my peers; don't think of it as a golden ticket but sure does help.

 

[randallr]

Originally Posted by Connemara

Lol @ randallr as a lawyer

LOL @ some dude who has 25k posts on some internet site about mens fashion thinking he's going to make something of his life doing it!

 

[DNW]

If I were you, I'd run away from this profession as far as possible. With the legal market all FUBAR, salary down, supply up, and this: Not to mention this: "Law School Tuition Hikes Spread Like Wildfires in California." (sixty big ******* Gs per year in 2012-2013 for UC Davis!!!!!) (and ain't it ******* funny that annual tuition rates -- before living expenses -- closely match the number of LSATs administered!?!?!) And if that didn't scare you, this: http://lawshucks.com/layoff-tracker/ It will be a long time before this profession [ahem...business] is stable again. P.S. I personally know several tax LLMs from top tax schools sitting on their asses right now doing not a damn thing.