Agonizing over 1/2 size when buying shoes - - Pointless?

[JayJay]

Originally Posted by HRoi

yes, a half size makes all the difference in the world. half a size smaller than "just right" is way too tight, and half a size bigger is way too loose. what I hate is shoes that somehow feel a half size big, but when you go half a size down, they're too tight

A half size too large or too small usually makes a huge difference for me; I can't wear either.

 

[Tuur]

I picked this thread up because I have a size problem I think. I'll already posted this in the Crockett & Jones thread but maybe here I can get a broader answer from more people.

I have C&J Edgware's in size UK8 that to my feeling are a little to rather loose in fit. It gives me heel slippage and now I started wearing very thick socks with the shoes or two pairs of thinner socks (like Falke Airport socks). With the two pairs of socks I have no problems in the toe area and the heel slips still remains.

Now I want to buy a new pair of C&J shoes, probably in the same 348-last, but I think I should try a half size smaller. Some people say that maybe this will fix the heel slippage (and the overall loose feel) but they also say it's risky because with a half size smaller I wouldn't have enough room in the toe area. However, for the moment I don't experience any toe problems, not even when I wear a pair of very thick socks or two pairs of thinner socks.

My guess is I will be allright with a half size smaller, though maybe a bit uncomfortable during the break-in period.

Am I underestimating the difference between a half size or do you think my reasoning is quite right, namely going from a rather loose shoe to one that fits just right is in the half-size-difference?

 

[jaywhyy]

You should not be experiencing heel slip after the sole has broken in. A little bit of heel slip when new can be fine as the sole will flex more as you wear. A tiny bit of snugness is also okay, as the insole will compress a bit as you wear. Pads/insoles/stretching can help as last resorts. This is from my experience, not fact.

You can try sizing down 1/2, but there is a chance the 348 last may not work for you. 348 is a little full in the instep while being long and narrow at the same time, so people with low insteps will experience heel slip. A tongue pad will help from my experience. Stay away from heel pads.

 

[DWFII]

The whole premise of this thread is silly. Why does anyone want to pay...whatever amount, much less a premium...for something that is not right and does not fit them? Are people so desperate for shoes...or probably more to the point, for a certain style of shoe...that they have to settle for sub-standard? If a person can't pull off "Style" without resorting to "the next best thing", they're not going to look any better with sore feet.

Beyond that, a "1/2 size" generally refers to lengths--heel to toe, or more properly heel to ball--AKA the "stick". This kind of size discrepancy can cause long term problems, depending of the foot and the nature of a person's physiology.

Girth measurements...which are not usually referred to in terms of half sizes , simply because girths are differentiated by alphabetical letters rather than numbers...can make a person uncomfortable if they are not consistent with the foot, but they are not likely to create health problems as readily as being improperly fit in length.

 

[Tuur]

The whole premise of this thread is silly. Why does anyone want to pay...whatever amount, much less a premium...for something that is not right and does not fit them? Are people so desperate for shoes...or probably more to the point, for a certain style of shoe...that they have to settle for sub-standard? If a person can't pull off "Style" without resorting to "the next best thing", they're not going to look any better with sore feet.

Beyond that, a "1/2 size" generally refers to lengths--heel to toe, or more properly heel to ball--AKA the "stick". This kind of size discrepancy can cause long term problems, depending of the foot and the nature of a person's physiology.

Girth measurements...which are not usually referred to in terms of half sizes , simply because girths are differentiated by alphabetical letters rather than numbers...can make a person uncomfortable if they are not consistent with the foot, but they are not likely to create health problems as readily as being improperly fit in length.

I understand what your saying and appreciate your comment. But I think that my question isn't really the same as the one of the person that started the topic. My problem is that I have no experience with higher end shoes, especially goodyear welted shoes. So okay, shoes should fit perfectly and you should not make any concessions on fit. In understand that and I agree with your point of view. But if you're in the shop, what should one look out for? Okay, the shoes should be comfortable, theymay be a little snug but they may not be tight. They should give your toes enough room and your heel should be snug but not too snug. All of those things right? Don't size up or down for reason of style. That's what you are saying, or not? I'm not a native english speaker so maybe I don't get your point very well.

But if you're not very experienced, then how does "snug" feel like compared to "tight"? That's what I'm asking. I don't want the size up or down for style or any other reason. I want to size down to get a better, more comfortable fit. I'm just insecure on how a comfortable, healthy fit feels like.

I have bought C&J shoes of which I was certain that they were not too small (because buying shoes that were too small was my biggest fear). After breaking them in, they feel rather loose now so now I'm guessing they are a tad too big. Now I'm asking, should I size down half-a-size?

Off course, I fully understand that asking those questions on a forum, when I'm in Belgium and you are 7000 miles away, is a bit silly. Nobody can say that sizing down a half a size will be good for me or not. But that's not what I'm really asking for, I'm just looking for experiences of other people. Things to look out for. I won't buy a certain size because somebody on a forum told me so.

You are clearly someone with lots of experience concerning shoes, you seem to understand how a shoe is made to fit. A lot of people like me don't and are insecure in pulling the trigger on shoes that cost 250-600 dollars/euros/pounds. I think we ventilate that insecurity in topics like these, seeking for hints and tips from more experienced people.

But we are getting off topic. I already pulled the trigger and bought new C&J shoes a half size smaller. I still have enough room in the toe area and the heel slippage is gone. The only thing I'm a bit worried for is that my heel fits rather snugly in the heel counter. There is almost no space between the heel and the heel counter but I'm not sure if this tells me anything. The shoes are not broken in yet as I've only worn them for an hour today, so I hope that everything will loosen up a little bit after some wear.

I guess the proof of the pudding will be in the eating.

 

[Mr. Mystery]

I'm starting to think I'm the only one who wears insoles in all of their leather shoes? I find them vastly more comfortable with some cushioning.

I'd like to know if this is similar for you guys here? I've tried no insoles and it just doesn't feel right to me anymore. I use 3/4 length insoles and always try shoes on with them. Every year or so I change the insoles unless they get heavy wear. I've settled on this version here, yet they have been deteriorating fast for some reason lately.

http://www.amazon.com/Dr-Scholls-Tri-Comfort-Orthotics-Packages/dp/B001EPQ5TA

what are your thoughts on this.

I would prefer full length insoles but I tend to buy tighter shoes with not much room in the toe-box


Also I'm in the slightly tighter shoe, I generally break them in a few hours a day until they stretch enuff to wear them. I hate the feeling of loose shoes.

 

[baronbvp]

I have two pairs of shoes at home over the weekend. I bought both the 10D and the 10 1/2D. Each feels better at a different time. I have made a decision on one and and then the other, almost returned each pair, and then I change my mind. Pretty soon they will be so broken in I won't be able to return either. I like to wear Superfeet orthotics and have to keep swapping between black (dress shoes) and green (athletic shoes; slightly thicker) to see the true fit.

Like others have said, I like room for the toes but the heel to stay on without slipping. So frustrating! I think in general, bigger is better for comfort over time. The tighter ones definitely bother me when I am just sitting over time, but they are better for walking confidently. Overall I think comfort trumps snug.

 

[DWFII]

There was a fellow--Sam Luchesse--whose grandfather and father were boot and shoemakers in San Antonio, Texas.

Sam died of throat cancer some years ago but virtually on his deathbed he wrote a small book about his father and the company. In it he said "if you're gonna fit 'em wrong, fit 'em long."

A half size can matter esp over the long run. But people all too often think that a Size 10D and a size 10-1/2 D are going to be the same width. Don't confuse tightness with length.

 

[CalzolaiFeF]

[...]I'm just insecure on how a comfortable, healthy fit feels like.

I have bought C&J shoes of which I was certain that they were not too small (because buying shoes that were too small was my biggest fear). After breaking them in, they feel rather loose now so now I'm guessing they are a tad too big. Now I'm asking, should I size down half-a-size?

[...]

But we are getting off topic. I already pulled the trigger and bought new C&J shoes a half size smaller. I still have enough room in the toe area and the heel slippage is gone. The only thing I'm a bit worried for is that my heel fits rather snugly in the heel counter. There is almost no space between the heel and the heel counter but I'm not sure if this tells me anything. The shoes are not broken in yet as I've only worn them for an hour today, so I hope that everything will loosen up a little bit after some wear.

I guess the proof of the pudding will be in the eating.

A comfortable, healthy fit is almost auto-explicative. If at the end of the day you don't have sore feet, it's comfortable: if in the long term you don't get bruises, calluses or blisters it's a healthy fit.

You can write million of lines about it, but I'll try to put the essential points of comfortable:

- The area from the heel to the instep should be snug but not uncomfortably tight. The heel should not slip upwards, but the lacing should not dig into your foot.
- The toes should have enough room to move and to extend during the walk. And by this I mean that the toebox should also be high enough, or you could graze the top of your toes on the hard point.

The most common error is to buy a shoe with too much room in the forepart: in that case the vamp, without the foot to support it, will fold over itself and dig into the joint. Ouch.

The breaking in process can be sinthetized in two phases: the heel counter will lightly moisten with the foot sweat and will conform to the real heel, and the vamp will flatten a bit and gain some millimeters in width. The point will not modify itself in any way whatsoever.

Speaking about measures and half measures: an increment of half a measure, in european points, will add about 3 mm in lenght and 1 mm on the total circumference of the last joint.

Hope I've helped you.

 

[Svenn]



I'm starting to think I'm the only one who wears insoles in all of their leather shoes? I find them vastly more comfortable with some cushioning.

I'd like to know if this is similar for you guys here? I've tried no insoles and it just doesn't feel right to me anymore. I use 3/4 length insoles and always try shoes on with them. Every year or so I change the insoles unless they get heavy wear. I've settled on this version here, yet they have been deteriorating fast for some reason lately.

http://www.amazon.com/Dr-Scholls-Tri-Comfort-Orthotics-Packages/dp/B001EPQ5TA

what are your thoughts on this.

I do the same thing with insoles, but I go a step further and have a cobbler attach a layer of shock-absorbing vibram rubber to the bottom of the shoes. Makes for a much more comfortable stride. I always get shoe sizes larger to accommodate this; I don't have to fret over sizes as I can just make the insole thicker or thinner to fit best.

 

[SuitedDx]



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

There was a fellow--Sam Luchesse--whose grandfather and father were boot and shoemakers in San Antonio, Texas.
Sam died of throat cancer some years ago but virtually on his deathbed he wrote a small book about his father and the company. In it he said

"if you're gonna fit 'em wrong, fit 'em long."

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

A half size can matter esp over the long run. But people all too often think that a Size 10D and a size 10-1/2 D are going to be the same width. Don't confuse tightness with length

.

DW, first time I've read this and I like it.

 

[DWFII]



DW, first time I've read this and I like it.

Always better to be fit spot on, but it's cautionary if nothing else.

 

[00Schneider]

I have the same problem and posted some pictures here: http://www.styleforum.net/t/354125/loake-appreciation-shoe-p0rn-thread/810#post_7161009

long story short: smaller size is very tight only on the LEFT foot. The right one fits, just a little bit tight at the instep.
larger size is very loose at the heel, a bit movement but I don't slip. Generally more space between leather and feet.
I _could_ wear insoles which I don't really want to have to.

Do you think the smaller size on the left foot will eventually break in if it's just on one spot too tight?