A revelation: I can't stand English suits

[lowlander]

While some posters have highlighted the importance of the difference between suit structures there's more to it than construction alone. It's not just that I did not personally enjoy the experience of wearing English suits, it's also the fact that I never did much find the attraction of the aesthetic or the idea of the English suit. As far as aesthetics go, my spiritual home is the 20th century: Stravinsky; Britten; Brecht; Van Der Rohe; Chet Baker; Biggie Smalls etc etc. Jean Baudrillard once stated something to the effect that national cultures are continuously defined (and redefined) by the particular periods at which their identities culminated. If we can say that in this respect America is continually defined (and redefined) by it's 20th century, France by it's 18th, Italy by it's 16-17th, then perhaps we can say that Britain or England is "wrapped up" mostly in it's 19th century. Indeed I find the whole aesthetic and idea of English tailoring incredibly derivative of it's Victorian era heritage (just visit Savile Row tailors to experience it). The explicit marketing references to the military, aristocracy and royalty are just some obvious examples. This just happens to be an aesthetic value that doesn't appeal to me in the least.

All of that's just context though, what I thought was interesting as far as my personal experience is concerned was to make the connection between my negative experiences of wearing suits that were "English" with my realisation that these suits were part of a broader culture and aesthetic that didn't particularly appeal to me to begin with. The positive outcome was that this only served to enrich my enjoyment of the Italian suits I have begun to wear and to appreciate the aesthetic values that produce them.

 

[dieworkwear]

Aren't all suits English? It's an English garment.

 

[gs77]

While some posters have highlighted the importance of the difference between suit structures there's more to it than construction alone. It's not just that I did not personally enjoy the experience of wearing English suits, it's also the fact that I never did much find the attraction of the aesthetic or the idea of the English suit. As far as aesthetics go, my spiritual home is the 20th century: Stravinsky; Britten; Brecht; Van Der Rohe; Chet Baker; Biggie Smalls etc etc. Jean Baudrillard once stated something to the effect that national cultures are continuously defined (and redefined) by the particular periods at which their identities culminated. If we can say that in this respect America is continually defined (and redefined) by it's 20th century, France by it's 18th, Italy by it's 16-17th, then perhaps we can say that Britain or England is "wrapped up" mostly in it's 19th century. Indeed I find the whole aesthetic and idea of English tailoring incredibly derivative of it's Victorian era heritage (just visit Savile Row tailors to experience it). The explicit marketing references to the military, aristocracy and royalty are just some obvious examples. This just happens to be an aesthetic value that doesn't appeal to me in the least.

All of that's just context though, what I thought was interesting as far as my personal experience is concerned was to make the connection between my negative experiences of wearing suits that were "English" with my realisation that these suits were part of a broader culture and aesthetic that didn't particularly appeal to me to begin with. The positive outcome was that this only served to enrich my enjoyment of the Italian suits I have begun to wear and to appreciate the aesthetic values that produce them.

Correct, although I'd say Italian culture would be better defined by the Renaissance times.
As I said, English = order, utility, power.
That's why their clothing (and most other stuff), although might be well made, is aestetically boring.

 

[gs77]

Aren't all suits English? It's an English garment.

So what? Italians figured out how to make it to be nicer and less boring.
Generalization, I know...

 

[Andy57]

So what? Italians figured out how to make it to be nicer and less boring.
Generalization, I know...

What on Earth does that even mean?

 

[Bromley]

@Andy57 where are you drinking coffee? In the Bay Area, just throw a stone and you'll break an Edison bulb onto a Slayer machine putting out some of the best espresso in the world.

In my experience I find that the average espresso in Italy is generally better than the average espresso in the US. But I think the quality of espresso in Italy levels off at the "pretty good" point (except Ditta Artigianale). The top tier coffee places in the US are making some of the best I've ever had. They're also using better equipment and better raw materials. More depth of flavor, and more distinct flavors, too.

 

[lowlander]

Aren't all suits English? It's an English garment.

Perhaps, but in the same way association football (soccer) is English, tell it to Zidane.

 

[dieworkwear]

Perhaps, but in the same way association football (soccer) is English, tell it to Zidane.

Aren't all RTW suits actually Chinese?

 

[gs77]

Aren't all RTW suits actually Chinese?

Only if they are British style. If they are Italian style and made in China, they are still Italian. Unless they have soft shoulder, quarter lining and wide lapels. Then they're called Neapolitan.

 

[gs77]

What on Earth does that even mean?

You know... boring... as in bowl of porridge.
As in suit that might get recommended here in the thread "What to wear to a job interview - Anglo-Saxon world edition" .
That kind of stuff.

 

[HotToddy]

@Andy57 where are you drinking coffee? In the Bay Area, just throw a stone and you'll break an Edison bulb onto a Slayer machine putting out some of the best espresso in the world.

In my experience I find that the average espresso in Italy is generally better than the average espresso in the US. But I think the quality of espresso in Italy levels off at the "pretty good" point (except Ditta Artigianale). The top tier coffee places in the US are making some of the best I've ever had. They're also using better equipment and better raw materials. More depth of flavor, and more distinct flavors, too.

I would rather drink an average espresso in a beautiful piazza instead of a good espresso in a coffee shop full of people on laptops.

 

[Bromley]

I would rather drink an average espresso in a beautiful piazza instead of a good espresso in a coffee shop full of people on laptops.

Me too.

 

[dieworkwear]

I would rather drink an average espresso in a beautiful piazza instead of a good espresso in a coffee shop full of people on laptops.

*presses "post reply" on laptop*

 

[HotToddy]

*presses "post reply" on laptop*

I did it on my phone. Press quote then reply. I am in the mood for an espresso now though.

 

[ShoeWho]

I'm English and also a fan of Italian fashion. My favourite suit is a RTW Versace. But it was never a work suit - I bought it for parties. My thought process was not 'what will be best for client meetings?' but 'what will chicks dig?' But I could have got a similar suit from an English tailor if I'd asked for it. They'll make whatever you want. Usually they have customers with little imagination who ask for something safe. There are so many men to whom fashion is a terrifying minefield - they want something 'correct' and they don't want to look stupid so they go to a long-established tailor so they can pay an expert to take all the big decisions. That's not the fault of the tailor. He has to make a living so he accommodates the foreigners who fly in and want to look like Sean Connery in Dr. No. There are English tailors who try to exploit a more up to date niche, like Ozwald Boateng. His output is at least as Milanese as anything in Milan, IYSWIM. But there's nothing to stop you going to Anderson and Sheppard with a photo of an Ozwald Boateng suit ripped from GQ and asking for something similar. I expect the tailor would enjoy it.