SPIER & MACKAY - Official Affiliate Thread

[FlyingHorker]

Extended shoulders often don't cause dimples and should drape cleanly. I don't think that's what's causing this. It looks to me like either the upper back/chest is too tight or the sleeve pitch doesn't work for your build. I suspect a tailor could diagnose the issue and letting out the upper back shouldn't be an expensive alteration.

Agreed. I have a SC with shoulders that wide and there is not a hint of a divot.

"Shoulders too wide" still seems to be repeated as a cause of divots, but it's not the cause.

This one keeps coming up and most people are mistaken about the causes so here's a detailed look at what causes shoulder divots or dents.

First, the divots have nothing to do with the width of the shoulder- we often hear people making comments about a shoulder being too wide because it is denting but this is not the cause. Look at old photos of Tommy Nutter's work- you can't get much wider than that and they don't dent.

Second, the divots have nothing to do with the amount of shoulder padding; again, you can tons of it and not have dents, and you can have dents on an unpadded shoulder.

THIS is what causes the divots.

The armhole must be cut in the right shape for the body of the wearer. The sleeve is then cut in a very precise relationship to the armhole. In the figure below, the height of the armhole dictates the height of the sleeve cap and the width of the armhole dictates the width of the sleeve cap. We'll say that distance a-b must be equal to e-f and distance c-d must be equal to g-h (for the super geeks, this is not the actual formula but we'll say it is for simplicity).

If you put on a jacket whose armhole has not been cut wide enough for you, or that the chest pulls because it is too tight (or a host of other reasons the armhole may distort) the armhole will contract- it will get wider and shorter. The sleeve cap is now too long and narrow (a-b is shorter than e-f and c-d is wider than g-h) so it pulls from front to back, and the extra length collapses. THIS is what causes the divot.

The only way to try to remedy this is to remove the sleeve and shorten the cap (cut away excess length); this will, in some cases, be sufficient, but in many cases you also need some extra width to the sleeve cap, which you will not be able to gain since there is no outlet for it. This is neither easy nor cheap so your average dry-cleaner alterations tailor may not be able to do it.

The only way to know if a jacket is gong to do this is to try it on. If it dents, try a size up or try a different maker.

 

[hamnjam]

Agreed. I have a SC with shoulders that wide and there is not a hint of a divot.

"Shoulders too wide" still seems to be repeated as a cause of divots, but it's not the cause.

Thanks for the quote by jefferyd. Makes sense as the Neapolitan jacket which is 0.2 inches larger in shoulder width than the non-Neo jacket which I happen to be trying for the first time.

I put on the jacket again and noticed that I can the divots disappear when my shoulders are in slight flexion, slightly forward of neutral position. Any more flexion or extension, the dimples appear. Am I making too much of a small matter?

Anyways, I'll take it to a tailor and see if anything can be done. I guess another option would be to return this for a Neapolitan cut jacket instead. They don't have my size in the Neapolitan Navy Hopsock unless I go the pricier fabrics (EThomas or the mocklino).

 

[nqtri]

Agreed. I have a SC with shoulders that wide and there is not a hint of a divot.

"Shoulders too wide" still seems to be repeated as a cause of divots, but it's not the cause.

Exactly. More often than not, divots are caused by narrow shoulders, not wide.

 

[FlyingHorker]

Thanks for the quote by jefferyd. Makes sense as the Neapolitan jacket which is 0.2 inches larger in shoulder width than the non-Neo jacket which I happen to be trying for the first time.

I put on the jacket again and noticed that I can the divots disappear when my shoulders are in slight flexion, slightly forward of neutral position. Any more flexion or extension, the dimples appear. Am I making too much of a small matter?

Anyways, I'll take it to a tailor and see if anything can be done. I guess another option would be to return this for a Neapolitan cut jacket instead. They don't have my size in the Neapolitan Navy Hopsock unless I go the pricier fabrics (EThomas or the mocklino).

I think if it bothers you enough to post about it, then it's a valid concern.

I'd be annoyed by it too, most people don't like divots at rest. (Well, SF posters anyway)

I think your solutions and options sound good.

If that's the slim cut, may be worth looking into trying out contemporary for the future.

 

[acapaca]

I put on the jacket again and noticed that I can the divots disappear when my shoulders are in slight flexion, slightly forward of neutral position. Any more flexion or extension, the dimples appear. Am I making too much of a small matter?

If I'm following this all correctly, then maybe this means that the cut of that jacket is designed for a more 'forward shoulders' kind of build than you have? I just got my first SM jackets a week or two ago (non-Neo, both), and I am ecstatic at how well they fit in the shoulders -- and I know that I have forward ones.

 

[hamnjam]

I think if it bothers you enough to post about it, then it's a valid concern.

I'd be annoyed by it too, most people don't like divots at rest. (Well, SF posters anyway)

I think your solutions and options sound good.

If that's the slim cut, may be worth looking into trying out contemporary for the future.

I'm very new to the world of tailoring, so I am learning to see how detailed orientated to get about fit, etc.

This is the contemporary - 38R. I guess an option would be to try the 40 in slim.....

If I'm following this all correctly, then maybe this means that the cut of that jacket is designed for a more 'forward shoulders' kind of build than you have? I just got my first SM jackets a week or two ago (non-Neo, both), and I am ecstatic at how well they fit in the shoulders -- and I know that I have forward ones.

Thanks! That's another way of how I would put it. My shoulder natural position is to bit back and I can fix this divot by making my shoulders more forward. I may likely have to stick to their Neapolitan fit.

I'm very glad that the fit works for you!

 

[Cmezavz]

Does anyone have a real life pic of the Amicale Gray & Brown?

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I found this one but it looks very light gray compared to the pictures in the website. Not sure if this is a problem with the picture or that is the actual color. I would prefer a darker gray just as shown in the site.

https://www.styleforum.net/attachments/20200724_154220-jpg.1429855/

 

[mbb355]

Do we think there will be a new grey herringbone sport coat this season?

 

[quigleysr]

Looks good! Which of your photos captures the true color the best? The second, sleeve photo leans to turquoise, on my monitor

I would say its in between the two photos on my monitor, but the sleeve photo does not look turquoise here. The "emerald" identifier by Minnis is a very good description IMO.

 

[Betelgeuse]

I hope they're smaller. Everyone's doing large lapels because of trend but not everyone looks good with them. All about proportions.

I think you may say that large lapels are a trend in StyFo... but I think the trend right now, skinny lapels for everyone outside StyFo.

 

[Betelgeuse]

S&M suit and shirt.

 

[Burzan]

Drago MTO and Spier emerald polo.

 

[Wilson13]

Drago MTO and Spier emerald polo.

View attachment 1442299

Really nice. This picture makes it look like a richer brown (which I prefer) than on the website. Which do you think is more accurate?

 

[Burzan]

Really nice. This picture makes it look like a richer brown (which I prefer) than on the website. Which do you think is more accurate?

that photo has some shadows making it look a bit darker. Here is probably the most accurate shot I have.

 

[pickergc]

Mauve striped shirt gets little love.