Japanese Boot / Shoe Appreciation Thread (White Cloud, Rolling Dub Trio, John Lofgren, Clinch, etc.

[ajd578]

I dunno. Aren’t Role Clubs hand welted? I think a CXL boot from Brian is roughly in that 1k price-point. And outsourcing always saves money. Even if it’s very high-quality outsourcing. Tooling a shop from the ground up is a *****... I speak from experience (albeit a different industry) with regards to that.

Wow, I didn’t know that. Thanks for the info! So “hand-welted” construction and White’s “hand-stitchdown” is the same thing?

Also, which White’s boots are hand stitchdown (or hand-welted, as the case may be), and which are regular stitchdown?

Hand welting isn't a single construction method. The hand welting that Brian does is totally different than White's, and they're both very different than what most think of when the term is used.

 

[smartbrother]

Wow, I didn’t know that. Thanks for the info! So “hand-welted” construction and White’s “hand-stitchdown” is the same thing?

The "hand" part is!

 

[Fear and Loathing]

Hand welting isn't a single construction method. The hand welting that Brian does is totally different than White's, and they're both very different than what most think of when the term is used.

Interesting. Do you mind walking through the differences? Trying to learn as much as I can...

 

[justsayno]

Hand welting in mass production is very different than hand welting in small workshops.

 

[smartbrother]

Hand welting in mass production is very different than hand welting in small workshops.

How so?

 

[ajd578]

Interesting. Do you mind walking through the differences? Trying to learn as much as I can...

I wouldn't be able to do it justice. They all attach a welt directly to a leather insole with a saddle stitch, but the insole prep method differs for Brian, and the welt itself is unique for White's. White's also are really only welted on the front half, the waist and heel are held together by nails.

Here's a video of Brian's that might help:




This thread has a lot of information about variations on hand welting technique, with perspectives from actual bespoke shoemakers:

Shoemaking Techniques and Traditions--"...these foolish things..."

In another thread there was a discussion about pricking up the welt that got turned around. Got me to thinking about all the little things-- the picky and immaterial and "foolish" things that take a really fine pair of shoes to the next level...beyond ordinary, IOW. Techniques that potential...

www.styleforum.net

 

[Patek]

I wonder if that's true? Or does he just mean that it's basically a cottage industry where most of the work is outsourced to small time shoe makers. The way that is worded makes it sound way more fancy than it actually is though. I know a lot of footwear is made by a small cottage industry such as the people who make moccasin style shoes.

Also JL price point is pretty high for what it is. For only a little more you can buy Clinch's non-horsebutt models and get an in house made boot rather than an outsourced boot. I think their graham model which is similar to what you got would only be 200 bucks more than the similar looking combat boots. Rolling club has a lot more style and pizzaz for roughly the same price for horsebutt and 300 dollars less for CXL. Sorry to beat a dead horse, but I can't understand all the defending JL's value proposition. It's almost 1000 USD (it's no less cheaper in Japan at around 95,000 yen) for CXL.

Moto (if it fits ya) also has a great price for quality ratio but sadly most people won't be able to try before you buy.

This is directly from John via FB messanger as I had him make me a pair of horse butt engineer boots and we went back and forth for a while:

"All our uppers are sewn by one guy at his house on a single needle machine. Then sent to the factory to be constructed. A bit of a pain to do it this way but the end result is worth it."

As far as sizing goes, either your regular boot sizing if you like them a bit looser or go down half a size like I did for a snugger fit. S&S is good at providing sizing advice.

 

[Patek]

Wow, I didn’t know that. Thanks for the info! So “hand-welted” construction and White’s “hand-stitchdown” is the same thing?

I now have a new level of appreciation for these:

View attachment 1553359

I love my Whites. I think I have five pairs at this point in CXL, HH, and veg tanned.

 

[ajd578]

This is directly from John via FB messanger as I had him make me a pair of horse butt engineer boots and we went back and forth for a while:

"All our uppers are sewn by one guy at his house on a single needle machine. Then sent to the factory to be constructed. A bit of a pain to do it this way but the end result is worth it."

Is that just the engineers, or the whole line?

 

[Patek]

Is that just the engineers, or the whole line?

He said that all of his boots are done that way.I had read that in interviews but I wanted verification from him. I think there was a Youtube video of the guy who sews them but I can't find it now.

Either way, the stitching is immaculate to the point of pretty. I know most people don't care about such things but I appreciate it. I also love my White's boots but they are much hardier and will take a beating on an all-day hike and their stitching is hit and miss.

 

[peachfuzzmcgee]

He just described the cottage industry for shoe making in Japan. It's how they are further able to save money since most of those people aren't contractional, they are often paid per job so benefits etc need to paid out. It's kinda the same way big fashion companies have a lot of their products made by grannies with sowing machines in their house. Same way inverallan basically outsourced their whole business to knitters in the area.

The hard part is done at home, and then they are sent to the factory to the part that needs the heavy machinery.

It gives people work, but sometimes people get under paid for the fact that they are being paid per garment/shoes etc plus obviously no benefits. Japanese consumers are very demanding about quality control, which ends up with amazingly perfect products, but also a lot of waste. Most times seconds etc never get sold and just get dumped.

 

[aj2603]

Not Japanese .. But i am sure everyone on this thread would appreciate the Flame Panda's on the 108 last and CLOE New10 Horserump.. The finishing is amazing...

 

[Fear and Loathing]

Not Japanese .. But i am sure everyone on this thread would appreciate the Flame Panda's on the 108 last and CLOE New10 Horserump.. The finishing is amazing...

Wow. Beautiful boots!

The tiny engravings on the speed hooks, all perfectly aligned, really serve to emphasize the overall quality of construction and attention to detail apparent throughout.

Those look very, very solid.

Are they comfy? How‘s the horse rump when this new? A bit stiff, or supple out of the box? Breaking in nicely?

 

[Ashen]

Not Japanese .. But i am sure everyone on this thread would appreciate the Flame Panda's on the 108 last and CLOE New10 Horserump.. The finishing is amazing...


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Wow!!!, Definitely one of the best pairs of footwear I've seen in quite some time.
Everything looks immaculate.

 

[aj2603]

Wow!!!, Definitely one of the best pairs of footwear I've seen in quite some time.
Everything looks immaculate.

immaculate is the right word ..

Wow. Beautiful boots!

The tiny engravings on the speed hooks, all perfectly aligned, really serve to emphasize the overall quality of construction and attention to detail apparent throughout.

Those look very, very solid.

Are they comfy? How‘s the horse rump when this new? A bit stiff, or supple out of the box? Breaking in nicely?

The attention to detail is insane.. stitching is spot on and extremely neat. The welt joint is the best i have seen.

They are built like TANKS. The pair weighs 2.74 Kgs (6 lbs.). They are extremely stiff and i am sure break-in will take time (a lot i think). I got them 2 days back so will start the break in and maybe update if someone is interested.

They are lined with kangaroo leather. The uppers are CLOE Veg tanned horse rump. It has 1.5 midsoles (he imports high quality midsoles for italy. really high density). The sole is full raw chord. The combination makes extremely solid. Most Flame Panda owners say that break-in takes a good amount of time but they get very comfortable once broken in.