٭٭٭ No Man Walks Alone - Official Affiliate Thread ٭٭٭ (a.k.a. I shouldn't have slept on it)

[sussi]

Synthetic blends are a deal-breaker for me. Always have been apart from athletic wear.

I agree on that. That is why I am not sure about Valstar coat.

 

[trafficjam]

I tend to trust that the makers I trust are better able to select textiles than I am and that the inclusion of synthetics is a conscious choice with a specific goal rather than a compromise. At least, it should be for the prices.

 

[Balman]

I tend to trust that the makers I trust are better able to select textiles than I am and that the inclusion of synthetics is a conscious choice with a specific goal rather than a compromise. At least, it should be for the prices.

But that's just it, the transition from a smaller less profitable, to a larger more profitable market is usually gradual with more and more cost cutting added with time. Materials are no exception when it comes to that sadly. How would we know if it was done for improvement rather than compromise?

I see no reason why makers would ever omit a material specification, like in this case for lining, if they didn't believe it will be received negatively by the consumer.

 

[trafficjam]

For what it's worth, Mr. Porter lists the lining as viscose, so you're safe. That said, I think your suspicion is generally misplaced given the variety of qualities of all kinds of materials. How would you know ANY material was done for improvement or compromise? It's a trivial question and we get to place our faiths in Greg 'n' co, Valstar, and our senses to be a proxy. Really doubt that the NMWA folks were like, "sure we stock a lot of good stuff, but let's grab one piece that's dogshit. As a joke, for the customer to find out."

 

[gdl203]

Synthetic blends are a deal-breaker for me. Always have been apart from athletic wear.

For an overcoat lining? really? Most suits and coats are lined with a bemberg or viscose type of material. It's just functionally better than other natural fiber options. Even top bespoke tailors will use bemberg.

This is a strange and surprising conversation. And now I'm curious @Balman and @sussi : what lining do you typically have in your overcoats?

 

[Mariokartfever]

Personally I use cilice, but that's because I am a godly man.

 

[ScottyK]

Oh my, the Beams beige knit polo is perfect. I was blown away by the silk/cashmere crewneck I got from them last year and this is on the same level.

I just ordered the brown one. Thanks!

 

[zissou]

For an overcoat lining? really? Most suits and coats are lined with a bemberg or viscose type of material. It's just functionally better than other natural fiber options. Even top bespoke tailors will use bemberg.

This is a strange and surprising conversation. And now I'm curious @Balman and @sussi : what lining do you typically have in your overcoats?

Bemberg, viscose, rayon, etc., are technically manufactured fibers made from natural wood cellulose, rather than synthetic fibers made from plastic or petroleum. Viscose tends to be much more breathable than polyester while still having that silky hand.

 

[gdl203]

Oh is this the distinction we're discussing here? Synthetics from natural fibers vs petro synthetic? I've been very confused by this whole discussion - I'm not really following it.

 

[zissou]

I think it's probably an issue of semantics. In the fabric world, fabrics are usually natural (made from fibers in their natural state), manufactured (natural materials that have been heavily processed to change their form), or synthetic (made from synthetic materials).

wool/cotton/silk/linen = natural
bemberg/viscose/tencel/rayon = manufactured
polyester/nylon = synthetic

As long as the process doesn't use nasty chemicals, manufactured fibers like tencel are high-performing and sustainable, being made from waste wood cellulose.

 

[gdl203]

I see no reason why makers would ever omit a material specification, like in this case for lining, if they didn't believe it will be received negatively by the consumer.

Some details are just omitted because they don't seem that useful - I think this is the reason you're looking for, nothing more nefarious than that. Do all makes give you the composition of the thread used to sew the garment? Of the interlining in the collar? What about footwear? So much of the construction materials and details are omitted, to avoid saturating the user with info they typically don't need or want.

The amount of information is a continuum from very little/not enough to a lot/too much, and I think everyone tries to strike a balance that provides enough info without getting into stuff that is not useful.

Most garments have composition of lining on the fabric tag and sometimes that information is relayed online as a bullet point or something like that. We don't always put everything on the product page.

In any case, the navy Valstar overcoat's lining is 100% viscose.

 

[leatherleather]

So this Doppiaa chore coat I recently received (beautiful piece imho) would be considered of questionable quality because it is a 90/10 blend of wool and polyamide?

 

[Remy Fool]

So this Doppiaa chore coat I recently received (beautiful piece imho) would be considered of questionable quality because it is a 90/10 blend of wool and polyamide?

According to some people, yes. 🤷 Their loss.

 

[gdl203]

So this Doppiaa chore coat I recently received (beautiful piece imho) would be considered of questionable quality because it is a 90/10 blend of wool and polyamide?

I'm not sure if the question is in jest or serious but if you're asking seriously, of course not. When designing fabrics, it sometimes makes a lot of sense to add nylon/polyamide to a yarn to make it work better for this specific use, in a specific weave. It makes it stronger without adding weight, sometimes help a more open/basketweave weave hold up better with wear and the elements, or can help add stretch and make a cloth more comfortable. The idea that wool mixes are questionable quality is kinda "level 2" of menswear learning IMO in a 10 level game. Once one understands what specific blending can achieve, one gets a better understanding of why it is sometimes a good approach.

Same goes with knitwear, some synthetic (or manufactured) materials will bring something totally different to the knit (more hairy, or a specific softness, or a crunchiness) that can't really be achieved with only natural fibers. It's a design (fabric design) choice to achieve a specific look and feel.

you can try to make a 60/40 fabric with only natural materials, but it won't be the same. It won't feel and look like 60/40.

and then there's the environmentalist dimension, which is of course a personal choice. But even natural fibers like cotton can have a very water-intensive production chain and be hard on the environment. If someone prefers natural fibers only as some sort of ethical choice, that's fine with me. But the shortcuts that say adding a synthetic component to fabric design lessens the quality of the garment, is a lazy argument IMO.

 

[leatherleather]

I'm not sure if the question is in jest or serious but if you're asking seriously, of course not. When designing fabrics, it sometimes makes a lot of sense to add nylon/polyamide to a yarn to make it work better for this specific use, in a specific weave. It makes it stronger without adding weight, sometimes help a more open/basketweave weave hold up better with wear and the elements. The idea that wool mixes are questionable quality is kinda "level 2" of menswear learning IMO in a 10 level game. Once one understands what specific blending can achieve, one gets a better understanding of why it is sometimes a good approach.

Same goes with knitwear, some synthetic (or manufactured) materials will bring something totally different to the knit (more hairy, or a specific softness, or a crunchiness) that can't really be achieved with only natural fibers. It's a design (fabric design) choice to achieve a specific look and feel.

you can try to make a 60/40 fabric with only natural materials, but it won't be the same. It won't feel and look like 60/40.

It was said in jest. I previously mentioned how synthetics are used for structural purposes. Personally, I like it when makers experiment with fabric and some of my favorite pieces are blends. I am still learning a lot about fashion and would not even consider myself a journeyman but I can tell right off the bat that the coat is of "chef's kiss" quality.