Thinking About Going Back For A Masters. What Do You Think Of These Careers?

Piobaire · Apr 27, 2011

Originally Posted by Concordia

And non-insured plastic surgery > insurance.

Seriously, this was the reason my father left medicine about 20 years ago. He saw things moving to where doctors would just be employees to private insurance companies and thrown away when they got too expensive. A gloomy prognosis, but I haven't heard a lot of regrets from him.

I'm too young to have been around then but there's little doubt a physician has to be more business savvy now than 20 years ago. However, I have far too many millionaire docs in my personal circle and business life not to know insurance still pays quite well when done right. Hell, just yesterday I was discussing some contracting with a staff doc and he was telling my his PMPM for certain plans rock.

Again, poor doc = doing it wrong (unless you're doing a large amount of charity work, etc.)

patrickBOOTH · Apr 27, 2011

Originally Posted by Piobaire

I'm too young to have been around then but there's little doubt a physician has to be more business savvy now than 20 years ago. However, I have far too many millionaire docs in my personal circle and business life not to know insurance still pays quite well when done right. Hell, just yesterday I was discussing some contracting with a staff doc and he was telling my his PMPM for certain plans rock.

Again, poor doc = doing it wrong (unless you're doing a large amount of charity work, etc.)

Yeah, I can't comment on that, I don't know the details of their businesses, but they have said "It ain't what it used to be." Granted they have accumulated a lot of wealth over the years, but they said they would never have been this well off if they were just starting their careers now.

Piobaire · Apr 27, 2011

Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH

Yeah, I can't comment on that, I don't know the details of their businesses, but they have said "It ain't what it used to be."

Few things are.

mfrege · Apr 27, 2011

Originally Posted by Tck13

Below are some of the careers that I'm considering. Basically thinking about making a change and heading into counseling or teaching.

One of the bigger problems that I see with the fields is, of course, money unless I decide to get a PhD, and that's quite an investment.

Anyone have any suggestions about or experience with any of the positions mentioned below?

Substance Abuse and Behavioral Disorder Counselors
Marriage and Family Therapists
Sociologists
Counseling Psychologists
Genetic Counselors
Mental Health Counselors
Clinical Psychologists
Neuropsychologists and Clinical Neuropsychologists
Psychiatrists

English Language and Literature Teachers, Postsecondary
Psychology Teachers, Postsecondary
Sociology Teachers, Postsecondary
Philosophy and Religion Teachers, Postsecondary

Your citing such a broad range of interests between and within disciplines that your post effectively says nothing. For this reason alone I would say that you are not ready for a masters, especially if it has a 1 year thesis component. If you can not clearly define what your thesis is going to be about, a 1 year thesis can turn very easily into a 2 year thesis and a 3 year program overall, maybe longer. IMO, walk through the doors of grad school only when you know exactly what you want to argue. In other words, care more about the ISSUE which interests you and not what program it falls within, especially since a single issue could potentially be discussed across a variety of different programs.

For example, if you wanted to argue something very specific in relation to ADD, that could be done in psych, clinical psych, PSY-D, Sociology, counseling, etc, etc. Define the issue of interest first and think of the program and career later.

Tck13 · Apr 28, 2011

Originally Posted by HelloIDistance

What is your current situation though? What field are you currently in?

My Bachelors is in Merchandising and Design and after I got my degree (in my 30's) I never found a position in the field. Strangely, before my degree I worked mostly in sales (retail, etc). I'm currently working in Manufacturing because I have found nothing in my field. I recently did some vocational testing and it seems I'm really suited for either teaching or counseling.

Originally Posted by Connemara

How long have you been working? If you have good experience and good GRE scores, lots of funding seem to be common. You could pick up a degree in a 1 or 2 year program without taking on a lot of debt.

This is what I"m thinking. I don't want to take on any loans and I'd like to pay for it myself but I'm not at a point where I know what to major in. I've been in the work force for about 22 years. I'm just trying to check out some careers that may be suitable and I'm trying to start to make a plan / some goals.

Originally Posted by Piobaire

As it was mentioned in the first two posts, just FYI, psychiatrists are physicians with a fellowship in...psychiatry. So unless med school and internship is in your future, you can safely scratch that one off the list.

Yeah, I have several friends that are counselors and they were saying the same thing. Two of my friends are addiction counselors and they said that Psychiatrists are pretty removed from the most rewarding part of therapy (really helping people). Problem is, the Psychiatrists seem to make the most money... Although, the Doctorate is a prerequisite for the field.

Originally Posted by Piobaire

Depending on your background maybe check out industrial psychology. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industr...nal_psychology

I'll check that out.

Originally Posted by Concordia

After having her kids, my mom went back for a genetic counseling MS. She was probably the only MD in the world who had ever done that. Not quite sure how long she worked in that field-- only a few years at most.

What happened? I had never heard of the field before I started doing some vocational testing and it popped up.

Originally Posted by Concordia

This means adjunct teaching at college, right? You'll probably need more than a master's to crack that door open.

Yeah, I've heard this and I'm trying to confirm. It seems like (from the people that I've talked to) one needs to have a higher level degree than what one's teaching but that's not always the case. Especially if a college wants or needs you.

Matt · Apr 28, 2011

do some mixing and matching of psych/marketing and what you already have in design and look into market research...you'd probably have some pretty good combined skills there for brand analysis/consumer behavior and that kind of stuff...

dfagdfsh · Apr 28, 2011

teaching college lit classes isn't something you really pursue on a whim

Tck13 · Apr 28, 2011

Originally Posted by Matt

do some mixing and matching of psych/marketing and what you already have in design and look into market research...you'd probably have some pretty good combined skills there for brand analysis/consumer behavior and that kind of stuff...

Any kind of job titles that I could look into?

Matt · Apr 28, 2011

All kinds of things involving the word "account manager" etc at research firms. You'd be looking more for companies than for job titles.

norcaltransplant · Apr 30, 2011

Originally Posted by Piobaire

Again, poor doc = doing it wrong (unless you're doing a large amount of charity work, etc.)

I must be doing it wrong.

...

Sociologist = low pay scale on average even with Master's degree

...

Psychiatrists, IM, and OB/GYN docs who take cash only are usually doing quite well for themselves. Finding a good internist will be increasingly difficult in the next 10-20 years as older physicians retire. They aren't being replaced due to ongoing deterioration in healthcare economics, job satisfaction, etc.

Piobaire · May 1, 2011

Originally Posted by norcaltransplant

Finding a good internist will be increasingly difficult in the next 10-20 years as older physicians retire. They aren't being replaced due to ongoing deterioration in healthcare economics, job satisfaction, etc.
All that has to happen is for payment patterns to change but we both know that. In Ontario right now it pays to be a GP. OHIP changed payments so drastically GPs can make as much as a highly specialized surgeon now. So much in fact, that US GPs are crossing the border, something that was unthinkable just 10 years ago. Of course, the lack of med-mal jackals in Canada also helps.

erdawe · May 1, 2011

Well, one thing to seriously consider is the time + effort required as an investment for these fields. Meaning, the physician pyschiatrist will likely be a 10+ year investment of time before you get to practicing and making those figures you see on salary surveys. With med school hovering with near 40% admittance rates currently may take 2-3 years of postbacc and application time to matriculate. Then you have 4 years of school and 4 years of psychiatry residency. If you decide at any point along the way as you get through your years in med school that you want out you have no consolation of skills to practice. You'll also be racked with debt to the tune of a good-sized house in the Midwest. Not to mention there's always a chance you could not match the psych residency you wanted and be stuck into a different field entirely. It does work out for most though. So yes their pulling down larger salaries. But to go into it for the money and no passion you'll find yourself with lots of long and possibly thankless hours that can lead to burnout and frustration. You should really want to do it before you jump in. Some of these other fields can be knocked out in 2-4 years time in graduate school. They'll have lower starting salaries, but certainly can be rewarding. Even at your age if you don't have much exposure you should try to talk/shadow people in these professions. Have a goal for the schooling. More education doesn't always achieve much if you have no clear path set out to accomplish. Article on psychiatry current trends toward medication if interested in the field: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/06/he...tml?ref=health

erdawe · May 1, 2011

As for the GP discussion: In the US the "reimbursement" structure is not really that representative of free market worth. The fee structure could be changed around pretty quicky to favor GP's if the power and initiative were pushed through. However, it's hard to change the status quo. Due to all the legal/regulatory work done by the govt., insurance, pharma and big health corps., all have lots of others avenues stick their fingers into the money pie other than just physician/practitioner salaries. Healtcare structure is quite complicated to navigate. Some interesting recent articles on employment trends for GP's in the U.S. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/23/he...ctor.html?_r=1 http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/02/he...tml?ref=health NPR bit that was originally linked here: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=135064923 Got pulled for some reason, so here's text: http://chrunners.net/forum/index.php...;topic=53234.0

Tck13 · May 1, 2011

Originally Posted by erdawe

Well, one thing to seriously consider is the time + effort required as an investment for these fields. Meaning, the physician pyschiatrist will likely be a 10+ year investment of time before you get to practicing and making those figures you see on salary surveys. With med school hovering with near 40% admittance rates currently may take 2-3 years of postbacc and application time to matriculate. Then you have 4 years of school and 4 years of psychiatry residency. If you decide at any point along the way as you get through your years in med school that you want out you have no consolation of skills to practice. You'll also be racked with debt to the tune of a good-sized house in the Midwest. Not to mention there's always a chance you could not match the psych residency you wanted and be stuck into a different field entirely. It does work out for most though.

So yes their pulling down larger salaries. But to go into it for the money and no passion you'll find yourself with lots of long and possibly thankless hours that can lead to burnout and frustration. You should really want to do it before you jump in.

Some of these other fields can be knocked out in 2-4 years time in graduate school. They'll have lower starting salaries, but certainly can be rewarding. Even at your age if you don't have much exposure you should try to talk/shadow people in these professions. Have a goal for the schooling. More education doesn't always achieve much if you have no clear path set out to accomplish.

Article on psychiatry current trends toward medication if interested in the field:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/06/he...tml?ref=health

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I'm really weighing the time / money factor in getting into any of these fields and also the pay vs. long term satisfaction. All of this is going to take some work. I'd like to try to find the middle ground of $, satisfaction and amount of work to get into a field.

Also, I'm starting the process of "interviewing" people in respective fields. I'd really like to do a thorough job of this before setting off on another career. I've read that people plan more for their vacations than for a career change (and that's been true of me) so maybe I can do it "right", or at least a little better this time.

Geoffrey Firmin · May 1, 2011

Originally Posted by Tck13

T I've read that people plan more for their vacations than for a career change (and that's been true of me) so maybe I can do it "right", or at least a little better this time.

With the degree that you have will they let you into a Psych Masters Program? And out of curiosity how much will it cost. I did an MA a few years back which cost me closet to $20000 Australian but then it got me into a PhD program which was free so I can't complain.

I worked in Mental Health as a case worker for two years and it burnt me up, needed a few months off to recover from it to be honest.

I have a mate who is a clinical psychologist he did BA Hons then a Masters makes a good living from it. I guess the real issue is how well you work with people, how you listen to them, and seek to understand their problems and offer advice, as I said I found it got just too much in the end. Hours too long limited resources but that's public health for you.

Thinking About Going Back For A Masters. What Do You Think Of These Careers?

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