"Vegetarian" Business/Formal Shoe Options

[Nosu3]

Originally Posted by chasingred

The idea that one has to be 100% militantly vegan or nothing at all is kind of a stupid idea anyway. Do what you can, where you can.

And honestly, the processing and production that goes into making ten synthetic leather shoes over one (which is a real ratio in terms of a shoe's lifetime) is much worse for the environment and, consequently, animals.

+1

I've avoided synthetics for that main reason but have been criticized because I'm an activist who happens to use leather. It also matters where you are sourcing. The leather products I use are sourced from the US or Europe while other leather products (usually sold in retail stores) come from places where the cattle is abused and cruelty is well-documented. They are forced to travel long distances while being ill and have pepper rubbed in their eyes to keep moving.

 

[chasingred]

Originally Posted by Nosu3

+1

I've avoided synthetics for that main reason but have been criticized because I'm an activist who happens to use leather. It also matters where you are sourcing. The leather products I use are sourced from the US or Europe while other leather products (usually sold in retail stores) come from places where the cattle is abused and cruelty is well-documented. They are forced to travel long distances while being ill and have pepper rubbed in their eyes to keep moving.

Agree with the above. Of course the ideal is to not kill an animal at all, but it goes a long way if you can research the different types of production methods used and how animals are treated. Definitely let me know if you find more info on this.

 

[entrero]

When the animal is abused, badly fed, etc. it will show on their hides, so it will work against the caretaker. The bad treatment also shows that hides are just byproducts.

Hint: Canadian cows are the best source for hides. In general, the more expensive the item, the better leather that is used and therefore presumed better treatment

 

[JLibourel]

I don't know where this BS that shell cordovan comes from horses that have died natural deaths comes from. Most shells and horsehide come from France where horses are still slaughtered for food.

I can recall asking Leighann, who worked at the Allen-Edmonds Cabazon outlet and bred horses on the side, whether selling cordovan shoes bothered her. She replied that it did, but she took some solace in the fact that it came from French horses.

 

[ineffable]

I agree with all the comments about synthetics being very bad for the environment, doing what you can where you can, and buying used shoes that will last.

I feel like an ass for leaving the ecologically responsible bit out of my OP, but I felt it was getting a bit long and decided to leave that out. It is a large concern for me, however I felt that once you have a material you can find a source for it that is ecologically friendly (as much so as plastics or synthetic materials can be - and probably as much so as the typical leather products given the chemicals used for their treatment/tanning and lack of biodegradability).

I guess I will just continue on with looking for the right waxed canvas shoe.

Does any one have ideas on shoemakers that (would) work with waxed canvas?

 

[entrero]

Originally Posted by JLibourel

I don't know where this BS that shell cordovan comes from horses that have died natural deaths comes from. Most shells and horsehide come from France where horses are still slaughtered for food.
The best way is to ask The Source. I'll get back when I have the answer

 

[entrero]

nvm, found it.

Originally Posted by NHorween

Against my better judgment, I'll join in...

Our horsehide, just like our bison and cowhide, comes from the meat packing industry. Specifically, from Canada (Quebec) and France where horse is raised as cow is for food. Horse slaughter is banned in the US, and (to my knowledge) there is no market for horse meat in the US. I would just say to read some of those articles with a grain of salt. People with an end in mind will often represent information in ways which suit their own purposes - not to say that there isn't some well written and researched documentation out there. Meatpacking a gritty industry for sure, and tanneries are connected only inasmuch as we use one of the chief byproducts.

Also, horsehide is the only hide that has shell. I suppose other skins may have a shell-like fiber structure, but not one that has the attributes of horsehide. If cows had shells we'd all be wearing cordovan!

 

[pebblegrain]

get cloth shoes, no big deal.

also, be prepared to not get job offers

 

[Nosu3]

Originally Posted by entrero

nvm, found it.

Interesting, I didn't know about that and cordovan.

There's a black market and horse slaughter goes on in the US at illegal slaughter farms. There was a TV episode about a woman who infiltrates them and tries to have them shut down, they are armed and she risks being injured.

 

[bleachboy]

What kind of pleather does Stella McCartney use? Get shoes made out of that.

 

[chasingred]

Originally Posted by entrero

nvm, found it.
I'm confused by this "shell cordovans are a by-product," and therefore ethical for vegans, idea. The producers who raise horses for food are still profiting off of the skins, which they factor into their production plans. If they weren't able to sell the skins, presumably the prices on the meat would have to go up, which in turn means consumers would face higher prices, and respond by buying less horse meat. Thus, in the end, fewer horses would be slaughtered. If the skins are just donated, then that's a different story. The story there, then, would be about not only the ethics of wearing shell cordovans, but how we can all get into the best business in the world.

 

[chasingred]

Originally Posted by MetroStyles

I mean it is pretty obvious that used is the way to go. There are great deals to be had for gently-used shoes on eBay, many of which look brand spanking new after a shine and polish.
Not really. If vegans didn't buy second hand leather shoes, stores carrying second hand leather shoes would lower their prices in order to move more units, at least in the short term. This means that people without these ethical concerns would be more willing to buy second hand shoes, which would then lower their likelihood of buying brand new leather shoes, which in turn would make producers respond by lowering production. The two markets - new and used shoes - are obviously connected. Aside from practical concerns, a vegan could forgo second hand leather shoes just based on purely ethical grounds. Obviously if you think the killing of an animals is completely unethical, you wouldn't buy leather shoes even if they were second hand. There's no real way around this - if you buy leather shoes, you're compromising your vegan beliefs. However, I still hold that it's difficult to make a real calculation on this because buying pleather shoes still has a negative impact on the environment, and consequently animals. Trying to weigh which has a larger negative impact is almost impossible. Either way, I still advocate that one take a slightly more flexible view. Be as vegan as you can, where you can, but recognize that militant rigidity is unreasonable. When you go to a friend's wedding, you can't request that they make a special serving of vegan cake just for you; when you go to a serious business meeting, you can't go looking like a bum; when you travel to other countries, you can't expect to purely vegan; so on and so forth.

 

[entrero]

Originally Posted by chasingred

Either way, I still advocate that one take a slightly more flexible view. Be as vegan as you can, where you can, but recognize that militant rigidity is unreasonable. When you go to a friend's wedding, you can't request that they make a special serving of vegan cake just for you; when you go to a serious business meeting, you can't go looking like a bum; when you travel to other countries, you can't expect to purely vegan; so on and so forth.
Which pretty much defines hypocrisy.

 

[MyOtherLife]

I wear vegetarian shoes every day. To my knowledge, the cows my shoes were made from did not eat meat.
/thread

 

[HPress]

Originally Posted by AlmostFullBenefits

I don't know if you want to thank me, but if you really want a non-animal leather substitute in a bespoke shoe and have lots of money to spend, then there is: human leather.

Yes, that's right. Human leather. It rubs the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again. While I'm guessing this group usually caters to exorbitantly wealthy people with macabre fetishes, it does put the human in humane leather. If nothing else, it is an morbidly intriguing idea.