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Random fashion thoughts - Part II (A New Hope)

Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by LA Guy, May 15, 2015.

  1. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Well-Known Member

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    How many different ways can you make patchwork jeans? Those two look really different to me.

    Someone on Twitter brought up another popular patchwork jean right now: Vetements. Idea seems really broad to me.
     
  2. Synthese

    Synthese Darth Millennial

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    Right, of course it is. And indigo + patchwork is very "in" right now, and as you say, has been around for....hundreds of years? Anyway, I'm just following what he's putting on insta, which includes plenty of stuff about how no, he's not the first, just that in this case he was tapped for "styling" which resulted in a collection that is a piece-by-piece (apparently) remake of his work. That last part is the only bit that sounds kinda scummy, but who knows?
     
  3. Baron

    Baron Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, it's how fashion works anyway. Not sure if the RW/JC example is even all that egregious, as these things go. Proenza Schouler's runway show at NYFW used earrings that totally rip off a friend of mine's designs, I've seen other friends calling that out on Instagram too and I think that example is way worse.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2016
  4. Synthese

    Synthese Darth Millennial

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    I dunno, the prevalence of plagiarized design doesn't seem like a reason to just roll with it. I don't think that's what you're saying, though. But no, if anything Rareweaves is pretty late to teh whole boro thing, no? Sounds like his personal involvement + no compensation or acknowledgement is the issue here.
     
  5. tgaith77

    tgaith77 Well-Known Member

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    It seems only that the recency of their interaction has got RW feeling burned. Also, its not like this is going to hurt his (RW) business anyways. People who love RW likely loathe J. Crew for the same reasons. People who love J. Crew likely have never heard of RW anyways.

    Someone who's prepared to spend north of $1K for a RW piece isn't going to be swayed last minute by J. Crews' accessible price point.
     
  6. Ragechester

    Ragechester Well-Known Member

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    If someone is venting in all caps on instagram they are either completely justified, vaguely psychotic or both.

    RW seems to have its own niche, he should just roll with it since it will probably increase the demand for RW products which look so special compared to JC clothing. Handcrafted vs mostly mass produced factory made, its a slightly different market.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2016
  7. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Well-Known Member

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    TBH, i don't think the value proposition in RW is about design anyway. It's all production process. They use vintage fabrics and a lot more handwork to get that sort of unique boro look. It's really easy for those sorts of things to look hokey on the mass market level.

    Which is why focusing on the J. Crew thing seems strange to me. They definitely didn't invent the idea, but the gist of their company isn't really about design, it's about production process. J. Crew can never do that sort of production at an affordable price point, so they're in two totally different spheres.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2016
    1 person likes this.
  8. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member

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    I am probably being dense here, but I'm looking at the pictures of the two pairs, and they look pretty different to me. The look alike in the same way that my Blue Blue Japan and my Samurai sashiko chore coats look the same - in that they don't except maybe at first glance.

    Anyway, if @rareweaves really thinks that J Crew ripped him off detail by detail, I can see why he'd be pissed. However, it would have seemed like a much better strategic move (and maybe he had already made it) for him to ask them to carry some of his stuff at "In Good Company", or otherwise negotiate a no lose, maybe win, deal.
     
  9. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member

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    Well, pepple get pissed off when they perceive a slight, whether or not the reaction is rational is another matter.

    With all that said, a series of Instagram posts in all caps raging against the machine's jeans just makes you look a little insane. One post, maybe two, okay. But I think that he is up to something like 5 now.

    It would be interesting to interview him (note to @Synthese - doable?) and see his take on this. I suppose we could contact J Crew for a response, but if they are smart, they would would not get into a ground war with a small little guy.
     
  10. winston86dit

    winston86dit Well-Known Member

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    I completely agree with this. I honestly don't get what this is about except for the "you styled with my clothes for free then designed pants that look kind of similar." But like everyone already said, this technique and look as been around for ages and RW definitely wasn't the first. If Jcrew went to a retailer and bought an RW piece and then came out with a patchwork-whatever would this be a non issue?
     
  11. tgaith77

    tgaith77 Well-Known Member

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    I THINK TYPING IN ALL CAPS IS A PERFECTLY REASONABLE WAY TO CONVEY YOUR POINT TO OTHERS. THIS DOESN'T AT ALL SEEM LIKE I TROLL THE COMMENTS SECTION ON YAHOO.
     
    3 people like this.
  12. robinsongreen68

    robinsongreen68 Well-Known Member

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    COS's rip-off of peir wu's lapel-less coat was a much more cut and dried case of idea 'theft', i think she posted the two designs side by side on instagram without even a comment, which seems about all one can do.
    i'm sure the outburst won't do hartley any harm though. people who buy into the whole rareweaves enterprise will just see it as a sign of integrity.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2016
  13. colabear

    colabear Well-Known Member

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    She didn't invent the lapel less coat. Giorgio Armani did that before her and Mainbocher did that before him thank you very much
     
  14. nahneun

    nahneun Well-Known Member

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    No one is implying that she did, but it is true that COS blatantly ripped off the design and the cut of her coat.
     
  15. colabear

    colabear Well-Known Member

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    What cut? It's a sack, shapeless coat.
     
  16. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Well-Known Member

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    On balance, I don't think it's that big of a deal when high street brands rip off established designers. I know I keep referencing this, but Johanna Blakely's talk about this is quite good.



    (Also, I hate linking to things I've written, cause it seems gross and self-promoting, but here's a summary for anyone who thinks the video is too long: http://putthison.com/post/97144694933/are-you-wearing-knockoffs-when-we-think-of)

    The only time I think it's an issue is when a big brand rips off a small, independent designer -- a designer who's career could be made off a star item. I suppose Rare Weaves kind of falls into that, although again, I don't think the design is new and the production process isn't possible at a J. Crew price point.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2016
  17. oulipien

    oulipien Well-Known Member

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    From the putthison link: "In a nutshell, her argument is: fashion’s free-for-all culture drives trends, which in turn, pushes innovation. In other words, fashion evolves like this: one company introduces a risky, but good design, and when it proves successful in the market, other high-end designers copy it."

    Take it away, Georg Simmel! "Fashion is a form of imitation and so of social equalization, but, paradoxically, in changing incessantly, it differentiates one time from another and one social stratum from another. It unites those a social class and segregates them from others. The elite initiates a fashion and, when the mass imitates it in an effort to obliterate the external distinctions of class, abandons it for a newer mode—a process that quickens with the increase of wealth." (This is just from the abstract.)
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member

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    And Margiela has done them in his Margiela 1 line, and doesn't Thamanyah do one as well. I often think that designers might have an inflated idea of self. I think that probably closer to the truth is the designers are affected by the zeitgeist and come up with things simultaneously. I mean, this happens in fields as specific as mathematics (a theorem has been proven by multiple mathematicians, working independently, and unaware of the other's work.) Doesn't it make more sense that designers might create very similar pieces of clothing, which are much more social objects than mathematical proofs, at roughly the same time?

    Incidentally, this happened to me in my thesis. I was about a year out from graduation when we found that someone has published a preliminary article using a very similar method to attack the same problem as I was doing in my thesis. Luckily, I had already laid out the groundwork in a few papers before that, so we could claim that we'd done it first. However, the two groups did not know one another, there was no overlap in personnel (if there had been, the protocol is usually to collaborate and co-author an article). I was always notorious for not really caring at all about the politics of academia, to the point that I once introduced myself to a Nobel Prize winner without knowing who he was, nor that he had won a Nobel Prize a few years earlier. So I certainly didn't know about the existence of the other group. iirc, I was surprised to find out that the university existed!
     
    1 person likes this.
  19. nicelynice

    nicelynice Well-Known Member

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    Some other company is offering a similar product to our business and we're going to fail <-- Every executive meeting I've been present in, ever
     
  20. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member

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    As an exercise, I just made a sketch of a lapelless coat. It is the type of sketch that I'd have made if someone told me "Design a lapelless coat". I had not seen any pictures AFAIK, of Peir Wu's coat, before hand. I am also not a designer, so though I've been exposed to fashion for a long time, I am not subject to the same aesthetic conditioning that designers that have gone to a design school have.

    I then googled "Peir Wu lapelless coat", and they looked, perhaps unsurprisingly, fairly similar. The only images that I had in my head when making a sketch was a vague recollection of a Margiela lapelless coat, a picture I'd seen years ago in an LN-CC lookbook, and a Marni coat my wife has worn for years. I simply took the lapels off of that and tried to create a tulip shape when I took the lapels off.

    I think that there are only so many ways to design a lapelless coat, maybe.
     
    1 person likes this.

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