Need help buying Vintage Omega

[acrackl]

Would appreciate some advice from someone familiar with vintage Omega watches. I am new to this. I was checking out the listings in Ebay and thought many of the vintage Omegas looked like good buys.

I came across the Omega website which allows a search of the database (all their watches, I assume) by case # and caliber #. When I tried to check the ebay listings using this database, I found that many of the offerings on Ebay do not match! Is it common practice to replace cases? or movements? Or am I misinterpreting what the Omega database tells me?

For example take the listing here: This says a Cal #552, with Case #166.002. However, as per the Omega website, for case # 166.002 a match with caliber #552 cannot be! (or vice versa, a search by caliber type 552 does not match to that case). If I use this criteria, I pretty much eliminate many "good looking" watches described as minty (many from Powersellers with good feedback).

Am I missing something here??

 

[Douglas]

I don't think you're missing anything.

I bought a great looking Omega recently on eBay. I loved it. It looked fantastic, and when I got it, it worked just fine, although the movement was a bit noisy. The hands also needed a slight re-set. Fine, I thought, I got a great deal on this, I paid less than $400 for it, I'll pay for the $50 cleaning and hand re-set. I wanted to wear it badly, though, so I wore it one day.

The crystal fell off.

I finally got around to taking it to a watch guy. The long and the short of it is, some 5 or 6 months after I bought the watch, he's telling me the movement is the wrong movement for the case. The reason the watch was noisy was that the automatic movement was too big for the case, and the auto-wind weight was rubbing the caseback.

So now that he's going to put a proper movement in, with the numerous other repairs (crown, crystal) and the whole rigamarole, this watch is going to cost me upwards of $600 and isn't going to look even remotely like the watch I bought, since the movement and dial are being replaced.

Obviously, I am an idiot and I bought without knowing what I was doing. But it takes so long to get into a watchmaker, and it takes even longer for them to look at it and give you a repair, that by the time you know you've been taken on a Frankenwatch, it's too late to leave negative feedback on eBay.

Perhaps my example isn't typical of what everyone would encounter, but it's enough to make me very cautious about buying another vintage Omega on eBay.

Trusting the Omega serial number cross-reference is a great way to ensure you're not getting a Frankenwatch, but you should still beware.

 

[gvibes]

I'd be afraid of buying an Omega (or Rolex, for that matter) on ebay.

 

[Elegantly Defined]

Seriously? Is it that bad I have a list that I am thinking about snatching at the last minute...what do y'all think?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll....cWAT.m240.lVI

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll....cWAT.m240.lVI

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll....cWAT.m240.lVI

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll....cWAT.m240.lVI

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll....cWAT.m240.lVI

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll....cWAT.m240.lVI

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll....cWAT.m240.lVI

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll....cWAT.m240.lVI


Are any of these fake!?!?!?

 

[mohwld]

A much better bet than EBay is http://www.finertimes.com Site specializes in vintage watches of all makes. I've bought a 1958 Omega Constellation "pie pan" as well as a 1964 SeaMaster from this site and been very happy.

 

[acrackl]

Elegantly defined:

Just as an example again, I took item #2 from your list. As per the listing,

Cal # : 750
Case # No.166.032/168.023

On searching the Omega site:

1. Cal # 750: This should be a "Geneve" model in stainless steel, which it appears is the only model this movement was used. Also the website dates it at 1972. This puts it at odds with the dial in the ebay listing - which shows a "seamaster" model. But Omega's website warns that many of their watches mayhave existed with "different dials". However, I dont think that, that applies to a complete change of model line. As one of the hallmarks of Omega (not my knowledge - but perusing Omega fan sites) is their attention to detail (I doubt whether they would have failed to document a "seamaster" Vs "Geneve"). It leads me to believe that the dial/movement combination is not original in the ebay listing. They maybe original Omega parts, put together later. Needless to say the case reference # should be either a ST 366.0828 or a 166.0142. That means the case likely came from a different line as well.

2. Case #166.032/168.023: I am only able to search by the second number 168.023, which shows that a 1968 seamaster with day/date similar to the listing existed. But this used the Cal #751 movement which is 24 jewels. This puts it at odds with the Caliber # on the listing.

When I posted first, I wanted to get feedback from members who know their Omegas (I want to confirm that my analysis of what the official Omega website tells me is sound). But it appears that in many of these cases the watch has been "altered" (which is probably a conclusion that I can arrive it - without saying they are fakes). I passed many ebay listings through this process and perhaps 2 or 3 out of 20 or more that I looked at passed this. Oddly enough several watches sold in Canada/USA (sellers based there) did not pass this, whereas one seller from India - I was able to validate a couple of his listings - but not all of them. The ones that pass this test generally speaking are priced higher.

Maybe this is an accepted practice, and I am taking this too far. However, I do feel that I need to know if the item I am buying is the real thing (but vintage as in "used normally") in its original condition or if it has been "altered".

Check out this listing from Sweden: I emailed the seller asking why his Case # and Cal # do not match and the response that I received: "Hello! No you´re perfectly right! It has been a mix up at my watchmaker, so the lid stamped 166.002 belongs to a cal562! This watch shall have a lid stamped 165.002. Cal562 is aut with date. Cal552 is aut only, no date. Very unfortunate but the lid fits nevertheless perfectly this watch. So it doesn´t show on the outside. If it´s important to you, that it is all original, I recommend that you don´t bid, or bid accordingly! Brgds "

 

[Journeyman]

If you are serious about buying a vintage Omega, then it might be a good idea to have a look at the Sales Corner on Timezone. The place is populated by WISs (watch idiot savants) and they are not shy about showing up anyone who is selling a fake or a frankenwatch. There are a couple of other very reputable watch sites with sales fora, and all such sites usually also have links to reputable merchants who sell vintage watches. I don't know what prices are considered to be reasonable nowadays, so you might end up paying a little more for a watch if you buy it from the sales corner on Timezone as opposed to eBay. However, I think that's a small price to pay for the relative peace of mind that you get buying from TZ or a similar website, as opposed to eBay. If you haven't already, you might also want to have a look at Chuck Maddox's watch site, and his blog - http://home.xnet.com/~cmaddox/watch.html. He is a WIS extraordinaire, and is an Omega enthusiast to boot. Amongst other things, his site has lots of links to online watch sites, and a list of Omega serial numbers for reference. Best of luck in your searching. I'm intending to buy an Omega Constellation with a "piepan" dial, when I have the time to go searching for a nice one.

 

[TCN]

Pie-pans are beautiful and underrated; truly an iconic watch.

 

[Twotone]

Since you are "new to this", I suggest that your first vintage Omega be purchased from a reputable vintage watch dealer. After you learn more and are more knowledgeable, then go out and seek other sources. Be careful of "Frankenwatches" -- monsters created out of mismatched cases, movements, dials, hands, etc. They may look OK, but are not historically correct.

Just my suggestion.

Twotone

 

[acrackl]

Thanks all. Learned a new term "frankenwatch".

 

[Omegablogger]

It is a tough job to find a "correct" vintage Omega but bear in mind that the biggest suppliers of frankenwatches has probably been Omega themselves. I think the database shows what should have happened back in the day but doesn't always reflect the actuality.

For your first Omega I would honestly say that ebay should be the last place you look.

 

[Mute]

You'd be better off if you look for one on the Timezone Sales Corner. As they like to say over there, buy the seller, meaning only deal with someone reputable and don't let price be your only determining factor.

 

[warlok1965]

I bought my vintage Constellation on ebay from a reputable seller, but in retrospect I would buy instead from finertimes.com or one of the other options mentioned. Mine ended up needing some servicing and regulating to get it in shape, but fortunately I double checked the serial, caliber, dial markings, etc. etc. against the reference materials out there and mine is not a frankenwatch. Also, lucky for me my watchmaker is a cool old Italian dude who worked for Omega in the 60s so he knows his stuff.

A good site for info about Constellations is http://omega-constellation-collectors.blogspot.com/

 

[Mark from Plano]

I also bought my two vintage solid gold Omegas on Ebay. But only after having spent several months on TimeZone sorting out the good from the bad.

Also keep in mind I'm a big fan of trips to Vegas, so that might tell you something about my personality.

 

[DaveHUK]

Hi, I have just become a member and noticed your post.

I own a 1968 Seamaster day date with the 750 hack movement.

I have done alot of research into this particular movement and have found that the 750 day date movement was used in the Seamaster of the day.

A very good site with reference links to use is www.chronomaddox.com

Hope this clears up an confusion....no doubt I am a little late with my reply.