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NBA 2016-2017 Season Thread

Discussion in 'Entertainment, Culture, and Sports' started by RFX45, Sep 22, 2010.

  1. idfnl

    idfnl Well-Known Member

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    Tim Duncan proves that physicality is overrated. A guy that knows where to be is more valuable that an athletic type that can make up ground (over a career). It's the old English football adage... "he's quick over a yard".
     
  2. indesertum

    indesertum Well-Known Member

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    nah. tim duncan is a center. he stays in the middle. perimeter defenders have to fight through screens and be really quick laterally
     
  3. phoni

    phoni Well-Known Member

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    Duncan does not operate on the perimeter anymore (if he ever did, stretch 4s were pretty rare until a few years back - looking back at proto-big men with 3 point range I can think of Cliff Robinson, Dirk, Sheed, Turkoglu, Rashard Lewis), so he's far more effective due to the way he operates. There's also the fact that he's long so he can make you think twice about taking a shot. Another advantage he has - he's Tim Duncan; most superstars get away with moving screens and other subtle(ish) fouls. Not saying he's a dirty player, but he'll get the benefit of the doubt in a close-call situation.

    Some slow players can be effective, if their man is trying to post them up, for example (hello Andre Miller), or if they have good hands and can get steals (Prigioni was very good at this last season, I think) but again, you have someone slow on a capable guard or wing, it's asking for trouble. If you switch and don't fight through you end up with mismatches; I've seen the Wizards get burned so many times this season due to our switch-everything mentality. If you're slow to navigate the screen, you've given up an open look.

    Being slow is a killer in the league; you can get away with lacking (some) size but not with having a slow team. Miami had some size but they were also mobile and just swarming on defense; Warriors, no need to comment; the Spurs on their recent championship team had Splitter and Duncan (both slow), but also Green and Leonard, who were great perimeter defenders (and still are). Diaw is deceptively mobile (in my opinion), Mills is short but scrappy (this last bit is some kind of required attribute for antipodean players, it seems) and Ginobli and Belinelli were about average. It definitely helped that Miami did not have a lot of 3 point shooters that year (Bosh, Bron, Lewis and Ray Allen off the bench).

    TLDR: slow players can survive in some defensive schemes where you have great help options (Spurs) but having them guard good perimeter players is a very risky proposition.
     
  4. indesertum

    indesertum Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it's killer. It's big but not everything. If you have Duncan or DJ or Gobert you can afford to make mistakes provided you stick to their hip or switch when needed. Plus you're going to get screened anyways and players that can always fight through screens are pretty rare.

    I think it's equally important to know when to help and when not to and that entails hustle and knowledge of schemes and what's going to happen a few moves ahead. Lateral quickness helps but good teams can cover for deficits. IMO defense is more team based than offense and it's less about individual abilities than collective iq and hustle
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2016
  5. idfnl

    idfnl Well-Known Member

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    The Spurs chip over the Heat (the Mavs to some degree also) shows that team D is more effective than individual physical attributes. League history is littered with this, like the Cetics over the Lakers in the 80s, etc.

    Guys that are athletically off the chart tend to rely on it too much then fall off a cliff when they lose a step. Iman Shumpert is a perfect example, here's a guy with every physical attribute you can dream of but you watch him and he just seems completely ineffective. Juxtapose that with a guy like Raja Bell.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2016
  6. Neo_Version 7

    Neo_Version 7 Well-Known Member

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    Bulls lose again to the Spurs this time but at least they looked competitive without Jimmy.
     
  7. phoni

    phoni Well-Known Member

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    I think we're all agreeing on the same thing here - you can hide some players, depending on defensive schemes or help. For me, that points out to one thing - you need something above average - either high BB IQ and support (Spurs, as noted, although Leonard and Green were really really good, as far as I can remember) or average BB IQ but good athletic ability (mobility and speed of reaction, to swarm, recover and chase people around screens). Is one more important than the other? Inconclusive, for me, since recent examples that were brought up seem to line up with my observations about help defense.

    You'd expect that players learn more about positioning the longer they're in the league, so when they start to slow down they can instead use their experience to make up for it. Then again, using this logic Shaq, DeAndre and Drummond should have improved their FT % over the years...

    As I recall, Shump was regarded as an elite defender before his injuries; not sure if he's any good now, don't watch the Cavs, even when they play us.
     
  8. idfnl

    idfnl Well-Known Member

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    Shumpert is an elite athlete, not necessarily an elite defender. I would want a high BB IQ over athletic prowess, much longer career that way.
     
  9. Steve B.

    Steve B. Well-Known Member

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    Russy got handcuffed tonight. Spurs ran a lot of people at him, but it was primarily Leonard. Great game.
     
  10. phoni

    phoni Well-Known Member

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    Damn it, did not catch the game. I find it interesting that the Spurs bench scored 8 points more than the OKC bench, and the final score reflected the same point difference. Except Kanter, the OKC bench had nothing to offer. Durant went 0-5 for 3 pointers, curious to know if defense was the factor or just a night off. For the Spurs, Danny Green going 1-10 is a bad performance but surely an encouraging sign, since they still won.

    Edit: 9 turnovers for Westbrook? I might need to watch the whole game now; I had such high hopes for him after the Clippers game...
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2016
  11. idfnl

    idfnl Well-Known Member

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    Spurs are winning despite Green. He's been a horror show. The other guy that's dropped off a cliff is Ibaka, watch him lose his starting role next season.
     
  12. IChen

    IChen Well-Known Member

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    Watching the Thunder has been annoying at times this year. Sometimes I wish Durant would just call for the ball, and ISO shoot in the 4th quarter. The way they sometimes lose 4th quarter leads and have droughts on scoring because everyone's standing around looking clueless and don't know what to do is....frustrating. Kanter has been amazing surprise for me though :O Ibaka though.....
     
  13. jcman311

    jcman311 Well-Known Member

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    Giannis with another triple double. That makes 4 in his last 11 games. I cant believe he is running the point... And that he is actually flourishing while doing so.

    Edit: last bucks player with 4 triple doubles in one season... Oscar Robertson
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2016
  14. HRoi

    HRoi Well-Known Member

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    I want to see this. A 7 foot skinny kid with huge hands and rubber limbs playing PG
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2016
  15. jcman311

    jcman311 Well-Known Member

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  16. phoni

    phoni Well-Known Member

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    Got him in my fantasy team, he's been carrying me for 6 weeks now. He racks up a lot of turnovers and his FT % is average; I expect him to start working on his 3 point shot for next season, at which point he'll be an absolute machine.
     
  17. ballmouse

    ballmouse Well-Known Member

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    At this moment, the Wizards are up 35, Rockets up 47, and Thunder up 37.
     
  18. idfnl

    idfnl Well-Known Member

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    Rockets won by 50.... poor Memphis
     
  19. indesertum

    indesertum Well-Known Member

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    Didn't Memphis have like 7 players and three of them were d leaguers on 10 day contracts?
     
  20. ellsbebc

    ellsbebc Well-Known Member

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    9 players, but yes. 3 d-leaguers plus a rookie draft pick. When we played in Atlanta this weekend, one of our lineups had Lance Stephenson as the most tenured Grizz at 11 games. The four other players combined for 11 games total.

    Sadly, that 49 point pummeling isn't our worst point differential of the season. We are out scored 1.4 points/game this season.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2016
    1 person likes this.

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