Mod to Suedehead

[roytonboy]

Motown's dicey first UK tour. 1 hour Doc.

Great stuff Yankmod! Thanks for posting.

 

[roytonboy]

Great documentary! Macca, bless him jumping someone else's train.

The RSG Motown broadcast is here:

I have probably got this on VHS up in the loft somewhere!

It's a funny thing but Motown fell out of popularity with us around 1970, when it wasn't considered 'hip' or 'cool' and in truth it had become a bit 'poppy', until re-releases such as 'Heaven Must Have Sent You' by the Elgins made it into the charts. By 1971/72 I could be heard saying things like, "I'm more of a soul fan than a Motown fan" and I wasn't alone as the early rumblings of Northern Soul were starting to be felt. I was, however, still buying the Motown Chartbusters albums as they came out - a bit of easy listening at home. In the last 12-18 months, though, as I have been a bit more discerning in my choice of venues, visiting mostly 60's Soul Clubs where a lot of Motown is played, it always fills the dance floor. I now recognise that, as the music of my youth, it has always been something that I have enjoyed. In fact, I would say that the 1965/66/67 sound of Motown is amongst my very favourite type of music.

 

[Gramps]

Thanks for all the track lists, lads. I have augmented them with some answers from a Northern Soul site.

I listened to the Wigan episode - maybe it's just my personal taste, but that seemed to be full of the tracks I have always considered bland, the tracks you find on cheap, NS compilation CDs.

That's Wigan for you!!!

 

[Aces and Eights]

I have probably got this on VHS up in the loft somewhere!

It's a funny thing but Motown fell out of popularity with us around 1970, when it wasn't considered 'hip' or 'cool' and in truth it had become a bit 'poppy', until re-releases such as 'Heaven Must Have Sent You' by the Elgins made it into the charts. By 1971/72 I could be heard saying things like, "I'm more of a soul fan than a Motown fan" and I wasn't alone as the early rumblings of Northern Soul were starting to be felt. I was, however, still buying the Motown Chartbusters albums as they came out - a bit of easy listening at home. In the last 12-18 months, though, as I have been a bit more discerning in my choice of venues, visiting mostly 60's Soul Clubs where a lot of Motown is played, it always fills the dance floor. I now recognise that, as the music of my youth, it has always been something that I have enjoyed. In fact, I would say that the 1965/66/67 sound of Motown is amongst my very favourite type of music.

roytonboy you made a good point there. I had always thought of myself has a Motown fan but thinking about what you have said it was generally only pre71 that I listen to and now thinking back it was after say 71 that it got too Pop. When your Mum and Dad could sing along to your style of music you knew you had to change to something else

 

[Man-of-Mystery]



I have probably got this on VHS up in the loft somewhere!

It's a funny thing but Motown fell out of popularity with us around 1970, when it wasn't considered 'hip' or 'cool' and in truth it had become a bit 'poppy', until re-releases such as 'Heaven Must Have Sent You' by the Elgins made it into the charts. By 1971/72 I could be heard saying things like, "I'm more of a soul fan than a Motown fan" and I wasn't alone as the early rumblings of Northern Soul were starting to be felt. I was, however, still buying the Motown Chartbusters albums as they came out - a bit of easy listening at home. In the last 12-18 months, though, as I have been a bit more discerning in my choice of venues, visiting mostly 60's Soul Clubs where a lot of Motown is played, it always fills the dance floor.  I now recognise that, as the music of my youth, it has always been something that I have enjoyed. In fact, I would say that the 1965/66/67 sound of Motown is amongst my very favourite type of music.

Motown was great back then, and I think in a way you have hit exactly on what so much later-discovered Northern Soul lacks - I'll put it in three words. Holland, Dozier, Holland.

I think that's why I have this love/hate relationship with NS. I'm typical of anyone from the youth subculture that happened immediately before something else - I'm almost too ready to tell the next lot where they're 'getting it all wrong'. But it's not up to me, it's their sub-culture, and whilst I may recognise carry-overs from mine, I've got no right to be the arbiter of taste. But on the other hand, why did they ignore all the good, mid-60s, mid-tempo R&B on the Motown label just because it was on the Motown label? It was so danceable. It seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

On the other, other hand, the NSers rescued a whole musical genre from absolute obscurity. People who do the same for old wax cylinders of New Orleans Jazz, or field recordings of work songs, or West African 'Highlife' rarities, get serious praise, they get doctorates! Like I said, this is a love/hate relationship for me!

 

[Clouseau]

Well MoM, it's never too late. you could get a doctorate on skinheadology maybe, and you could use this scooter to go to university.

 

[roytonboy]

Motown was great back then, and I think in a way you have hit exactly on what so much later-discovered Northern Soul lacks - I'll put it in three words. Holland, Dozier, Holland.

I think that's why I have this love/hate relationship with NS. I'm typical of anyone from the youth subculture that happened immediately before something else - I'm almost too ready to tell the next lot where they're 'getting it all wrong'. But it's not up to me, it's their sub-culture, and whilst I may recognise carry-overs from mine, I've got no right to be the arbiter of taste. But on the other hand, why did they ignore all the good, mid-60s, mid-tempo R&B on the Motown label just because it was on the Motown label? It was so danceable. It seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

On the other, other hand, the NSers rescued a whole musical genre from absolute obscurity. People who do the same for old wax cylinders of New Orleans Jazz, or field recordings of work songs, or West African 'Highlife' rarities, get serious praise, they get doctorates! Like I said, this is a love/hate relationship for me!

Nail on the head M-o-M! Holland - Dozier - Holland left Motown in 1967. It was not just their own productions, but their influence on the musical direction that was lost too.

It's a strange thing about Northern Soul. Originally much of what we listened and danced to was Motown, but not always the chart stuff - lots of Edwin Starr (Originally on the Ric-Tic label, later taken over by Motown) Marvin Gaye and the Elgins, for example (that's the reason 'Heaven Must Have Sent You' was re-released and became a chart hit early in 1971) Plenty of it was uptempo stuff too. Late in 1971 I started to buy the Motown Disco Classics albums which were full of these types of tracks - "Nothing's Too Good For My Baby" by Stevie Wonder, "Lonely. Lonely Girl Am I" by the Velvelettes, stuff that had never been in the charts and was unknown to the general public. It was the embryonic 'Northern Soul' though we didn't know it by that name then. As Motown moved towards the Jimmy Ruffin "What Becomes Of The Broken Hearted" sound and was perceived to be more commercial and therefore less 'cool', the movement towards a rarer, more uptempo style accelerated in the clubs and Motown pretty much fell into disregard. This is well summed up in the film 'Northern Soul' when one of the characters berates his mate for playing a Marvin Gaye track when they are DJ-ing - "What are you doing?" he yells, "It's Marvin ******* Gaye! You'll never get anywhere being a crowd pleaser" (the fact that the dance floor is full and people are enjoying it is lost on him)

I'm in agreement with you, M-o-M ......There are some fantastic Northern Soul tracks, lots and lots of good ones, but plenty of non-descript ones too (demonstrating just why they were rare and unheard in the first place!)

About 12 years ago I had an interesting little experience - I was talking music with a woman at work. She had been a skinhead/suedehead in her youth and was into soul and Motown. A short time later she said there was a Northern Soul and Motown night on near where she lived, should we go? On the night I arrived a bit early but heard Barbara, her sister and another woman from work arrive, even before they entered the building as they had drunk a bottle of vodka between them before leaving home - they virtually fell through the door of the place! Up until that point the music had all been a bit obscure and the dance floor had tempted at most 6 people at any one time. The headline guest DJ was Chris King, a notable Motown Collector and big name in the world of Northern Soul. He started his set about an hour after we arrived. The girls were pretty hacked off by this time, not knowing any of the music but wanting a dance. "Go and ask him for Mustang Sally" I told them he wouldn't play it as he was a Motown DJ, "I'll ask for Road Runner then" 'You've no chance' I thought, 'That's much too commercial' . Whether it was the state of Barbara (who by this time had topped up the vodka) or whether he just thought it was a good choice, we'll never know but he put Junior Walker on the turntable and immediately everybody in the place got on the dance floor. So much for rarity! After that he kept the more well known tracks coming and the dance floor full. I met Chris King at an all nighter a few months later and commented on how brave he'd been to play "Road Runner" at a Northern Soul do, he laughed and said, "Yes, we had a good night in the end, didn't we"

Whilst it is important that any music scene is kept fresh with new finds or releases, I believe the vast majority of people want to dance to familiar music. To the Northern Soul crowd that means the music of the Torch and Wigan but to those of us of a more, ahem, senior disposition, it will include Motown.

 

[Man-of-Mystery]



Well MoM, it's never too late. you could get a doctorate on skinheadology maybe, and you could use this scooter to go to university.

I can quite safely say that if you want to put me on that thing I would have to be a corpse! @ rotonboy - the one thing I regretted about my skinhead years was the fact that no one in my manor was actually enthusiastic about the music. The clothes were great, the girls were cute, and so on, but the music was just the stuff we danced to, or rather we stood around to while the girls danced. There were maybe only a couple of us who actually bothered about the music, and even I kinda lost interest after a while too. Just one of those things.

 

[Clouseau]

I can quite safely say that if you want to put me on that thing I would have to be a corpse!

@ rotonboy - the one thing I regretted about my skinhead years was the fact that no one in my manor was actually enthusiastic about the music. The clothes were great, the girls were cute, and so on, but the music was just the stuff we danced to, or rather we stood around to while the girls danced. There were maybe only a couple of us who actually bothered about the music, and even I kinda lost interest after a while too. Just one of those things.

That's part of what i understood thanks to this thread, while some of you - a minority ?- were into music, others were into gangs - street fighting men -, football, or just fashion. And maybe a mix of all of that for the others...

 

[yankmod]

I listened to Motown in the womb and thereafter and always one of my favorites.Some of my favorite Northern Soul tracks are the ones not tryin to imitate Motown.I agree it WAS Holland-Dozier-Holland that ruled the roost.

 

[roytonboy]

That's part of what i understood thanks to this thread, while some of you - a minority ?- were into music, others were into gangs - street fighting men -, football, or just fashion. And maybe a mix of all of that for the others...

Clouseau - that pretty much sums me up!

 

[Ed Vaughan]



Clouseau - that pretty much sums me up!

Me too!

Right, apologies if a re-post, but the MEN is runing this today: http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/business/manchesters-motel-one-moves-step-8384955


So, not sure if anyone has posted this - re, Twisted Wheel):

A sad day.

(Check out the related vids on the right side bar too - love 'Hitler's response to Wigan Casino closing. )

 

[The Saint]

Me too!

Right, apologies if a re-post, but the MEN is runing this today: http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/business/manchesters-motel-one-moves-step-8384955


So, not sure if anyone has posted this - re, Twisted Wheel):

A sad day.

(Check out the related vids on the right side bar too - love 'Hitler's response to Wigan Casino closing.

)

LOL

I have now seen that clip so many times , with various different subtitles to it . It comes from a fantastic series . The guy whom plays mr Hilter is first rate and has a brief appearance in the movie , The Counselor. .

 

[Man-of-Mystery]



LOL

I have now seen that clip so many times , with various different subtitles to it . It comes from a fantastic series . The guy whom plays mr Hilter is first rate and has a brief appearance in the movie , The Counselor. .

'Long After Tonight' is a good title, very apt!

I foliowed the sidebar link - scenes from that movie have been used in so many mash-ups! LMAO @ "THOSE PIE EATING DOG RACING IDIOTS!"

 

[Man-of-Mystery]

Far be it from me to condone or provoke acts of civil disobedience and vandalism, but once that hotel goes up, there is a handy word in German that anyone in Manchester with access to a spray can might wish to learn: 'Scheisse'.