If you do not own the following things, you are not well dressed

[TheFoo]

I like Alden cordovan loafers a lot. Classic Americana. But I can't wear them because they don't fit. I don't think I can wear any RTW loafers.

 

[JPHardy]



Brown captoe double monks fill in the loafer slot for me. Loafers just don't fit me well at all - I prefer the extra support added by the monkstrap. The brown double monks are my shoes of choice when travelling because they are easy for airport security and pairs with jeans to sport coats to suits.

That's my MO as well.

 

[gomestar]



i know this will make me look even worse than i already do around here, but can someone hook me up with a link to these alden for BB shell loafers.

here

 

[Gus]



The brown double monks are my shoes of choice when travelling because they are easy for airport security

Especially if left unbuckled

 

[fritzl]



[/spoiler]
Terrific post. Useful real-world advice, such as this, is often lacking on these boards.

unfortunately yes...

 

[in stitches]



here

thanks gome, those are really nice, but really not my steez. they should be tho. definitely something to keep in mind.

 

[fritzl]



Brown bluchers are the closest thing I guess. The thing is, those are versatile, but not essential IMO. I still think the loafer, which goes from summer to winter and with tie to without tie, is a staple shoe.

no need to guess, they are, imo. nevertheless, i agree that a well made/shaped loafer is a staple for sure.

 

[dopey]



i know this will make me look even worse than i already do around here, but can someone hook me up with a link to these alden for BB shell loafers.

I like Alden cordovan loafers a lot. Classic Americana. But I can't wear them because they don't fit. I don't think I can wear any RTW loafers.

thanks gome, those are really nice, but really not my steez. they should be tho. definitely something to keep in mind.

They are awesome. They are a variant on Alden's Leisure Hand Sewn, which Alden makes in both calf and shell. I have a pair in brown calf from Alden and the Brooks Brothers in Shell. Brooks Brothers' shell version is unlined whereas Alden's is lined (I think). I could not find Alden's in shell in a narrow width, which is why I got the BB model but all else being equal, I would prefer it anyway. Like Foo, I have trouble fitting into loafers, especially because I usually need an orthotic but I had these modified so they fit and the orthotic corrections were built in. I have had both pairs resoled, possibly more than once.

 

[RJman]

..

 

[TheFoo]

RJ, glad to have you back after your self-exile to the shadow forum.

However, you are so wrong.

If you take Manton's list literally, yes it is useless and asinine. But come on, why would you take it that way? The fundamental concept is that there are many, many staples of classic men's dress that many, if not most, should think to acquire and use before branching out to the more zany and ridiculous. Keep in mind who the audience is. SF is not populated by members insisting on dressing business casual, or who have very few clothes to pick from. They tend to be the opposite: mass acquirers of oddball items that are neither her nor there--aesthetically, thematically, or contextually. For them, any direction toward a stabilized, more fundamentals-oriented approach is a good thing.

As for DBs, specifically: I agree they are "advanced." As you point out yourself, fit is as important as aesthetic taste (or "style"). A DB suit is incredibly hard to find in classic cloth off-the-rack, and even harder to fit right. For any predictable level of success, you really need to go custom. I think it's fair to say any requirement that one order a bespoke garment be considered "advanced." As you know, it is an expensive, time-consuming process. That, and nobody has ever accused an otherwise well-dressed man for not being well-dressed simply because he doesn't wear DB suits.

 

[fritzl]



..

oh hai. griesvelt, cheers

 

[NORE]



-a blue odd jacket. If you live in a two-season climate, then two, one for warmth and one for the cold
-mid gray flannel pants
-decent, non-chino khakis
-at least one funky (but tasteful!) non-blue tweed jacket
-a mid to dark gray worsted single-breasted suit
-a navy worsted single breasted suit
-a white FC shirt
-several blue BC shirts, at least one BD
-black stitch caps
-some tasteful brown oxfords (exact configuration up to you)
-loafers in medium brown calf, suede or shell or else burg shell
-a solid black tie, knit or grenadine
-a solid navy tie, knit or grenadine
-a plain white linen hanky
For the "more advanced" players:
-at least one DB suit, navy worsted or medium gray flannel (the best dressers will have both)
-at least one linen suit
-at least one pair of brown suede shoes
-at least one formal tie, e.g., a B&W shepherd's check
-at least one wool or cashmere tie
-at least one linen or linen blend tie
If necessary
-A complete, well-fitting, correct black tie rig, including shoes
-An overcoat in navy, charcoal or camel

My tally

 

[Manton]



Is putting a DB suit in the "'more advanced'" section a subtle attempt at trolling?

Moi? Mai non!

The point is, you can be well dressed without it but you can't be extremely well dressed. If all you need are the basics but you want to look correct and good on every occasion then you don't need a DB. If you really want to take it to the next level, though, you do.

I feel the need to point out that one isn't well-dressed for owning this stuff if one isn't wearing it.

Why did you feel the need to point out something completely obvious?

The idea that one would both own and wear the stuff -- which is well-chosen assuming one lives and works in an environment where such could be worn without raising comment -- is pretty normative -- it presumes that the wearer lives or spends significant time in an environment where, say, somewhat warm clothing like flannels or tweed jackets would be worn with frequency, and it presumes that the wearer works in an environment where he would be sporting a suit and tie with frequency. At this point in my life, I do and do, but that's not always been the case.

This has all been addressed in the thread.

Also, sp00 is better dressed than maf00fan,

So, so wrong.

In any event, I would argue that to be well-dressed, you need both clothes that fit and a sense of style, and some of us have both and some of us don't.

Sure, of course, they should all fit. However, someone could have NO sense of style, but own everything on this list, and wear nothing but, and be better dressed than 90% of the men out there.

 

[fritzl]



They are awesome.

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

They are a variant on Alden's Leisure Hand Sewn, which Alden makes in both calf and shell. I have a pair in brown calf from Alden and the Brooks Brothers in Shell. Brooks Brothers' shell version is unlined whereas Alden's is lined (I think). I could not find Alden's in shell in a narrow width, which is why I got the BB model but all else being equal, I would prefer it anyway. Like Foo, I have trouble fitting into loafers, especially because I usually need an orthotic but I had these modified so they fit and the orthotic corrections were built in. I have had both pairs resoled, possibly more than once

.

talking about awesome loafers. these are to die for..., hands down

John Lobb St. James's Burgundy tassel loafers

the loafer is the type of shoe, where you can see the biggest difference from bespoke to RTW, if you can...

 

[RJman]



RJ, glad to have you back after your self-exile to the shadow forum.

However, you are so wrong.

If you take Manton's list literally, yes it is useless and asinine. But come on, why would you take it that way? The fundamental concept is that there are many, many staples of classic men's dress that many, if not most, should think to acquire and use before branching out to the more zany and ridiculous. Keep in mind who the audience is. SF is not populated by members insisting on dressing business casual, or who have very few clothes to pick from. They tend to be the opposite: mass acquirers of oddball items that are neither her nor there aesthetically, thematically, contextually. For them, any direction toward a stabilized, more fundamentals-oriented approach is a good thing.

As for DBs, specifically: I agree they are "advanced." As you point out yourself, fit is as important as aesthetic taste (or "style"). A DB suit is incredibly hard to find in classic cloth off-the-rack, and even harder to fit right. For any predictable level of success, you really need to go custom. I think it's fair to say any requirement that one go bespoke be considered "advanced." As you know, it is an expensive, time-consuming process. That, and nobody has ever accused an otherwise well-dressed man for not being well-dressed simply because he doesn't wear DB suits.

Mind you, young padawan, I didn't say Manolo's list was "useless and asinine" -- quite the contrary, I think it's well-chosen but presumes the wearer would actually be in situations he would wear that clothing. Owning this stuff doesn't make you well-dressed if you don't have occasion to wear it.

I may be Patient Zero for acquiring oddball items, they keep me from answering Camus' fundamental question of existence.

The DB "more advanced" comment is an inside (Inner Circle?) joke from before your time. I take no position on whether one needs one to be well-dressed. If I were still ordering suits, an A&S DB made in the old way (SB-size buttons, nonfunctioning cuffs) in a light grey flannel would be one of the next items on my list. Who knows, maybe we could be light grey DB suit twins (fraternal).