Bespoke suits out of college

[Matt]

Originally Posted by kitonbrioni

Brioni and Kiton are what you are wanting, then by all means go with them.
kitonbrioni do you like brioni and kiton?

 

[DGP]

KB- I think your handle leaves no mystery as to your tastes, however I would say that for a younger guy, regardless of means, Zegna is a better MTM maker than Bespoke/MTM Kiton or Brioni. Their cuts are a bit younger, and, though their construction/detailing may not be quite as exquisit as that of the former makers, the cloth is amazing, and they will run you half the price.

 

[william]

Originally Posted by edmorel

Interestinly enough, the current Men's Vogue has a family of men (a father and two sons) who are in business together and who all wear Poole, the dad for many years. You can't see a full view of the Dad, but the sons look medicore at best given that the suits are Poole. One son looks like he is wearing a Brooks sack suit and the other has pants that are about 2 inches too long. Neither one would stand out as very well dressed.

I just read that article yesterday at Borders. I kept studying that picture as if I was missing something. They looked average at best.

 

[pejsek]

Originally Posted by mrchapel

Personally, if I had the money to go bespoke, I would go to Henry Poole and Co. located on Savile Row in London. But that's me. If you have the money, I'd go for it. Anything you get bespoke or MTM is going to look significantly better than anything you could find OTR.

I don't mean to be strident, but this is ridiculous. Bespoke is not a magic incantation (okay, well maybe it is but only in a far more roundabout way). For those without unusual fit issues, high quality rtw nearly always delivers greater style than entry level bespoke. I've seen some truly wonderful things from Henry Poole, yet I've also seen some authentic mediocrities from that very same legend of tailoring. More than anything else, bespoke is the product of a relation between tailor and client. It would be surprising if things were to work out perfectly from the beginning (not that it doesn't happen from time to time). And that's just the conversation part. From the business angle, if you are going to get serious attention and the services of the best cutters, sewers, etc. the tailor must be convinced that you are in this for the long haul, that they can count on you to order several things from them every year for many years to come. It's not as simple as just going in, getting measured up, and then coming back for a couple of fittings. Over time you will come to know what you want and you will have a relationship with the tailor that can translate that into clothing. JLibourel appears to have done this with Chan. That's the magic part. But short of that, high quality rtw will give you harmonious styling and construction that you will be free to judge and take or leave as you wish. It's a far less costly and risky proposition (especially when you may not be sure about what features you want and how those may fit together).

 

[epa]

I am not sure that very expensive clothes are the right thing for somebody starting a professional career. Won't it look like your dad paid for it? Isn't there a risk that your colleagues may look at you as some kind of "daddy's spoiled son"?
I think that it can, at least sometimes, be better to start with clothes in a price class in line with the salary. Also, this means that while your career is progressing, you will be able to gratify yourself by buying better and better clothes. If you start with the best right from the beginning, you will not have the pleasure of feeling that your first Brioni is the fruit of hard and successful work.

 

[mrchapel]

Originally Posted by pejsek

I don't mean to be strident, but this is ridiculous. Bespoke is not a magic incantation (okay, well maybe it is but only in a far more roundabout way). For those without unusual fit issues, high quality rtw nearly always delivers greater style than entry level bespoke. I've seen some truly wonderful things from Henry Poole, yet I've also seen some authentic mediocrities from that very same legend of tailoring. More than anything else, bespoke is the product of a relation between tailor and client. It would be surprising if things were to work out perfectly from the beginning (not that it doesn't happen from time to time). And that's just the conversation part. From the business angle, if you are going to get serious attention and the services of the best cutters, sewers, etc. the tailor must be convinced that you are in this for the long haul, that they can count on you to order several things from them every year for many years to come. It's not as simple as just going in, getting measured up, and then coming back for a couple of fittings. Over time you will come to know what you want and you will have a relationship with the tailor that can translate that into clothing. JLibourel appears to have done this with Chan. That's the magic part. But short of that, high quality rtw will give you harmonious styling and construction that you will be free to judge and take or leave as you wish. It's a far less costly and risky proposition (especially when you may not be sure about what features you want and how those may fit together).

First and foremost, I will assume this is directed at me since my post has been quoted. Secondly, my reasoning for wanting bespoke, could I afford it, comes from my Grandfather. My Grandfather did extremely well in business during his day. He developed a relationship with Poole and Co., and whilst his suits have either been donated to charity or somehow gone amiss over the years (his death occurred before I was born), the pictures of him I have seen over the years are extremely elegant. It was always said never wore anything but the finest in bespoke suitings, and in his opinion Poole and Co. possessed what he was looking for. He'd often take 2-3 trips a year to London just so that he could take a look at the latest fabric, etc. He favored the style of Poole and Co. and I figure I'd be half as lucky to have a bespoke suit from Poole and Co. to fit as well as it did on him considering our similarity in stature. And this is why I'd want my bespoke suit to come from Poole and Co.

I am well aware of the relationship that going bespoke entails, and when I am financially able, I look forward to forming a relationship with a great master of tailoring; be it Poole and Co. or another firm, but I do know my entrance into the bespoke world will be with them out of respect for my Grandfather. It has been told to me that he wished his grandchildren to carry on in the tradition of dressing well, as he was taught and his father before his. I strive to meet his wishes.

That said, I don't think it's fair to say that anyone who wishes to go bespoke should not if they're looking for one suit. The odds are high that one bespoke purchase will spur subsequent bespoke purchases in the years to come, and any good bespoke tailor knows this and knows this well; how else do you explain that bespoke tailoring has not died? Bespoke suiting entails complete customisation of one's suits, from the fabric to the cut and style, and any other options one can think of.

I do disagree though, that an entry-level bespoke suit is going to be less than a RTW suit. Even the cheapest bespoke suit is going to outdo the RTW suit any day, and even though I do not have first hand experience, I know many who have. When it comes down to it, bespoke is always the best option; who doesn't want something that fits exactly to their body?

Originally Posted by epa

I am not sure that very expensive clothes are the right thing for somebody starting a professional career. Won't it look like your dad paid for it? Isn't there a risk that your colleagues may look at you as some kind of "daddy's spoiled son"?
I think that it can, at least sometimes, be better to start with clothes in a price class in line with the salary. Also, this means that while your career is progressing, you will be able to gratify yourself by buying better and better clothes. If you start with the best right from the beginning, you will not have the pleasure of feeling that your first Brioni is the fruit of hard and successful work.

I think it depends on the job really. On the flip side, it could show the potential employer that you are a diligent saver and that you take yourself very seriously, as well as showing a level of dedication.

 

[epa]

About 10 years ago, I remember my boss at that time and I interviewing young engineers for a trainee position. There was this very nice girl who qualified well for the position, but she had never worked. However, according to her CV, she liked sailing and skiing and had her own car. My ex-boss and I agreed that it sounded like her parents having spoilt her a bit, and we were looking for responsible people, prepared to work hard. She did not get the job (we actually hired another person, who had spent her summer vacations working for MacDonald's; it turned out to be a good choice). For the same reason, someone showing up in a Brioni suit might have faced similar problems. I seriously think that a young person may give a better impression if choosing less expensive clothes. I think style is not primarily about money: it is more about knowing to choose the right stuff within the limits of your budget. If your budget has no limits, this may be good for you, of course. However, it may still be a good idea not to make this fact evident to your boss and your colleagues, at least not from the very beginning. Actually, your boss may still be dreaming about getting his first bespoke Brioni, and seeing this young guy having five different ones at the age of just above 20 may be a frustrating experience.

 

[Toiletduck]

Go for it. Chances are no one in the office will notice the difference between a $100 suit and a $5000 one.

 

[acidboy]

Originally Posted by epa

About 10 years ago, I remember my boss at that time and I interviewing young engineers for a trainee position. There was this very nice girl who qualified well for the position, but she had never worked. However, according to her CV, she liked sailing and skiing and had her own car. My ex-boss and I agreed that it sounded like her parents having spoilt her a bit, and we were looking for responsible people, prepared to work hard. She did not get the job (we actually hired another person, who had spent her summer vacations working for MacDonald's; it turned out to be a good choice).
whoa! that sounded like that old song by 5 man electrical band (and later tesla) "signs"... in reverse!

And the sign said "Long-haired freaky people need not apply" So I tucked my hair up under my hat and I went in to ask him why He said "You look like a fine upstanding young man, I think you'll do" So I took off my hat, I said "Imagine that. Huh! Me workin' for you!"

 

[lee_44106]

Originally Posted by Toiletduck

Go for it. Chances are no one in the office will notice the difference between a $100 suit and a $5000 one.


So true, so true.

"Fancy details" that are immediately obvious to the eye, such as pick stitching and working cuffs, are just as prevalent on cheaper suits as they are on Kiton/Brioni. 100% of the people can tell a Mercedes from a Honda, but I bet <1 will be able to tell a Brioni from a Perry Ellis.

By the way, it seems the original poster was suggesting that money was not an issue. Well, if that's the case than go with the best you can afford. Most of the nay-sayers perhaps have cases of sour-grape, telling the kid to stick with cheap suits.

 

[Master Shake]

Originally Posted by pejsek

For those without unusual fit issues, high quality rtw nearly always delivers greater style than entry level bespoke. I've seen some truly wonderful things from Henry Poole, yet I've also seen some authentic mediocrities from that very same legend of tailoring.

Some may think this blasphemy, but I agree with this. Henry Poole, of course, is not entry-level bespoke, but I have had a suit made by a tailor regarded somewhat highly on this forum, and although the fit is fine, the workmanship is just not there. It is a light-weight wool, and the darts on the jacket pucker. There are loose threads, and the stitching is not as tight as one would expect.

I have some "unusual fit issues," and I still prefer my higher quality RTW suits (Battistoni, Castangia, Kiton), because the workmanship is far superior. At the end, the fit is basically the same on these as with my "bespoke" suit.

Now, if we are talking about a Raphael, Logsdail, or Huntsman, then you have the perfect fit with excellent craftsmanship. I am saving up for something alone these lines for my next bespoke commission. But entry-level bespoke is not the magical cure all that some here seem to make it out to be, particularly if you want a finely-made product.

 

[Master Shake]

By the way, to answe the original post: I would rather invest the money left over after buying high-quality RTW or MTM and use it for something later on. There's no need for bespoke suits, if there ever is such a need, when one is just starting out.

 

[Joffrey]

call me jealous but I think it's a horrible Idea to purchase a bespoke suit straight out of college. Especially if you are going into Ibanking as an analyst. I dont think someone doing excel models 80+ hours a week was meant to wear $5000 suit in the process. I wouldnt bother thinking of going bespoke or even Made to measure until I reach VP

 

[GQgeek]

Originally Posted by Jodum5

call me jealous but I think it's a horrible Idea to purchase a bespoke suit straight out of college. Especially if you are going into Ibanking as an analyst. I dont think someone doing excel models 80+ hours a week was meant to wear $5000 suit in the process. I wouldnt bother thinking of going bespoke or even Made to measure until I reach VP

Why not? It's his money and if he wants to spend it on suits he should be able to. I write code. Everything I wear is high-end RTW (mainly borrelli), bespoke, or MTM. As a computer nerd I should relegate myself to khakis, t-shirts, and running shoes right? **** that ;p

If you know you're headed towards the high-end eventually and you can spare the money now, why waste a cent on crap like Brooks Brothers or other middle of the road offerings?

And for the record, I agree with a previous poster that probably less than 1% of the population will be able to indentify a suit as brioni, kiton or bespoke or have any idea of the true value of such an item. Hell I bet a lot of people on the street see the puckering of my sleevehead and think my jacket needs to be pressed... Even among other people that are in to clothes, most have no idea.

 

[edmorel]

Originally Posted by GQgeek

Why not? It's his money and if he wants to spend it on suits he should be able to. I write code. Everything I wear is high-end RTW (mainly borrelli), bespoke, or MTM. As a computer nerd I should relegate myself to khakis, t-shirts, and running shoes right? **** that ;p

If you know you're headed towards the high-end eventually and you can spare the money now, why waste a cent on crap like Brooks Brothers or other middle of the road offerings?

And for the record, I agree with a previous poster that probably less than 1% of the population will be able to indentify a suit as brioni, kiton or bespoke or have any idea of the true value of such an item. Hell I bet a lot of people on the street see the puckering of my sleevehead and think my jacket needs to be pressed... Even among other people that are in to clothes, most have no idea.


I think Jodum's point is that, given the work that he'll be doing (and without even taking into account that fact that his body will most likely change over the next few years), it's best if he goes somewhat low key. In investment banking, there are certain "rules" as to attire. A first year guy who outdresses the boss and his more senior coworkers will be walking around with a target on his back (many here underestimate whether people can tell that you are wearing something expensive of not). Also, he'll likely be eating lunch and dinner on a 4-5ft. wide desk with tons of paper, drinks and stuff all around. Is that they type of environment that you want to expose expensive clothing to just because you can? I am sure that you would not advise someone who just learned to drive to go out and buy a Ferrari as their commuting car just because they can afford it. And is all Brooks stuff crap? Even the Golden Fleece?
Anyway, maybe our resident nyc banker, gdl203, will chime in on this topic..